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Flori chats to Instagram Mentor and Expert Emily Osmond around how to make the most of Instagram for your business, today.

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    • Why you should post less on Instagram
    • The 5 step system to growing your sales using Instagram
    • Key tips on how to leverage your account for visibility and engagement
    • Is IGTV worth pursuing right now?




Emily Osmond is a marketing educator who through her online program, The Modern Marketing Collective, curated events, and her podcast The Emily Osmond Show, helps women to market themselves easily and authentically online and make more money doing the work they love.

Emily has a Master of Communications, with a thesis on social media, and after growing up England, then moving to regional Victoria, she is now based in Melbourne.

She’s obsessed with crime podcasts, Staffies and all things interiors, which she blogs about on her internationally recognised platform





Instagram: @emilyosmond



Flori Pyke: [00:01:26] Hello and welcome to Episode 77. It's Flori here with you today. Now, today, you and I are going to be getting your social media game on because do you know what? I was thinking it's been a little while now since we had an update and specifically an update on all things Instagram. So, it's time. And who better to get our gram on than with Instagram mentor for women, Emily Osmond. And, I thought I'd throw in some stats your way so that you can basically appreciate and get your head around just how fundamental this platform is, because with 1 billion active users per month, 200 million Insta users visiting at least one business profile daily and Insta users spending an average of 28 minutes per day on the platform and growing, Insta is obviously pretty powerful when it comes to socials. And today, Emily is going to be sharing what you need to be mindful of right now when it comes to making waves for your business on this platform. But just quickly, before we get started, I wanted to read out a quick review we recently received about the podcast from AH26, who says if you're looking for a podcast that gives you real gold on how to run your biz, then this is the place to be. Anna and Flori clearly know their stuff. Absolute pleasure, lady. Thank you for tuning in and supporting us. OK, so, it's time to get started. Emily, huge welcome. How are you?

Emily Osmond: [00:02:57] I'm great. And, it's exciting to be here and I'm looking forward to our discussion. So, thanks for having me, Flori.

Flori Pyke: [00:03:04] No. It is such a pleasure. I'm really excited to tap into your brain, to be honest, on all things Insta because it's true, you know, we haven't had someone on the podcast now to discuss Instagram for probably about 12 months. Yes. So, you know, I felt like it's time. We need a bit of Insta juice on here. Now, look, before we get into it and I start asking you all the questions, I thought I'd start by just asking you to share with us a little bit more around your journey and your brand, Emily Osmond. And, you know, when you started out and also like, why have you gotten into Instagram?

Emily Osmond: [00:03:46] So, good question. And I'm afraid I don't have a really short answer. So, just bear with me because it hasn’t been a straightforward perennial line.

Flori Pyke: [00:03:55] That is totally OK. We're here. We're listening.

Emily Osmond: [00:03:58] So, I guess I was doing my studies. I did Bachelor of Arts. I studied political science. And so, I went go into policy and government. And during my undergrad, I actually started doing some volunteering in the media side of things and PR and also some news reading. And I was like, wow, this is actually really fun. Maybe I can get into global affairs in this kind of way through the media. So, I went on realised it was kind of hard to get a job with an arts degree. So, I went on and did my masters in communication and really opened my eyes. I like barely knew how to use technology before that. And so, I figured out I had to learn through my studies how to build websites and how to create videos and messaging and all that type of thing. And, I grew up, well, I actually grew up in England. And then, I moved to Ballarat when I was in my teenage years with my family. So, at that stage, I was finishing. I was writing my thesis. I moved back home to Ballarat. And, I actually just went out and tried to get work experience anywhere I could and worked in radio and a bit on TV and video and newspaper. And while that was awesome, I kind of realised that journalism wasn't really the right fit for me. But anyway, through all of that, I met a lady and she ran her own business and she was representing some of the local businesses in Ballarat, particularly in the tourism space. So, I started working for her doing all things social media, marketing and public relations. And I was like, how is this work? This is so much fun. So anyway, I guess I was building my own business. I had some different contracts that I was working on. Eventually, one of those contracts turned into a part-time job and then a fulltime job. And, I had my fulltime job for about a year and I had my clients on the side. I was kind of sitting there. Few things were happening in my life. My Pop was sick and my boyfriend was in Melbourne. I was living in Ballarat. I just felt like there's something more for me to do. And all I wanted to do was be at home. I'd kind of like work on my lunch break, work every evening, working on my client projects, because that was what really, really excited me. So, I quit my job. I didn't have anywhere near enough. I had my own mortgage at that stage. Like any financial adviser would be like that was a risk for you. And my mum even made me go and see her financial planner. And I had like my little notebook. And he's like, look, basically, this isn't a good idea, but I know you're not going to listen to me. So, don't tell your mum we had this conversation and just go for it. [both laugh] So, that was about four and a half years ago. Those first three years or so in business, I was basically and I think other people can do the same, I didn't really have a plan in terms of what I was going to do. I knew I loved that social media space. It was the one that I was working in. And even back then, it was really on Instagram. It was an emerging platform, which sounds really weird now because it's so prevalent. [Flori agrees] But also people were saying like do you do branding? Oh OK. Yeah, we do branding and graphic designers, do you do websites? Yeah, I built my own website so I think I could build yours. And, so over the years, I basically built a mini agency. I do have contractors. We're working on different projects. But all along, I just knew in my gut it justwasn't really the right fit for me. And, I looked forward in terms of what that business might look like. And I could see that it would be taking on more clients, probably building and having a project manager or account manager. And it just didn't excite me in it. It just didn't feel like what I really wanted to do. So again, I tend to be someone that just acts quite fast and then figures it out. So... I came across the idea of memberships and couple weeks later, I decided, right, that's what I'm going to do. This is perfect. I love teaching and coaching and mentoring. And so, I basically let all my client contracts run out and launched my online membership, The Modern Marketing Collective which I've had for a year. So, yeah, just to add to your last question there about why Instagram, you introduced this so well for in terms of the stats and for me, I kind of say like I'm not really concerned about Instagram itself. I'm concerned and I care about the platforms that can get really good results. And, if next week or next year, Instagram is not the platform, then I'll move on from that and find out where the next one is. But we just know that Instagram is very impactful and powerful and it's where a lot of attention is and we can get a lot of engagement for our business on there. And, it's the one that a lot of people are craving some guidance around how to use it. So that's why I decided to niche into that area. So, I hope I kind of answered your question.

Flori Pyke: [00:08:31] Yeah. No, I mean, it's great to understand the journey and how you, well, essentially how you came to niche into Instagram because I think the journey that you described is one that we see so many business owners take, you know, where kind of scared to niche, you know, there's that FOMO like I want to be all things to all people. I don't want to say no, because, you know, that's an opportunity there. But it sounds like when you did take that leap and you were able to niche; things have become far clearer for you. And, it sounds like far more successful for you as well, which is really exciting.

Emily Osmond: [00:09:06] Thank you. Yeah, it took me four years to niche. [Flori says "Well, you got there in the end."] And my business mentor, that was my number one thing I'm saying like, what should I do? What direction should I take? And all along, they were like just niche on Instagram. But I just kept resisting because of all those things that we tell ourselves like that's going to really limit me. I'm so much more than Instagram. [Flori says "Yeah. It's that FOMO, I swear."] As soon as I did it, it's like one of the key things I tell people now, just niche. And the thing is I just mentioned,I'm not going to stick with it forever. You don't have to. You just need to choose an area that people great results in that you care about. [Flori agrees] And that is going to help people know who to refer to you because they understand what you do. And then in the future, you can then pivot. It doesn't matter.

Flori Pyke: [00:09:47] Totally. And, I think that's such an important caveat that you added there. Like, I see so much fear around people exactly niching down because they're afraid that they're gonna be stuck there forever. You know, when it comes to defining like their mission and their vision and their values and their niche. And, I think that is so fundamental like you're not stuck in one place forever. Like you have the power to choose exactly right, you know, whether you want to pivot into something else and I think like that is what stops a lot of people, though, from the niching, because they think, well, s**t I'm gonna stuck here forever. It's like you're only stuck for however long you want to be stuck. You know, it's on you. It's your choice, right?

Emily Osmond: [00:10:33] And it could be something that they do softly just tweaking the messaging on their social media, their website. It doesn't have to be something that's really official and formal. Like that is what I almost did, I decided to tweak my messaging. And yeah, I just recommend it so much because then you can stand out more in the market. Before I just said I offer like marketing and no one understands what that is.

Flori Pyke: [00:10:55] It’s so true. OK. Love it. So, let's do this. Let's start talking Insta. I want to start picking your brains, Emily. I'm going to call you Em. Is that alright? [Emily says, "Oh, that's what everyone calls me."] OK fab. So, Em, we're gonna start talking Insta. So obviously, you know, kind of like the million-dollar question right now, what is working for business owners on the 'gram?

Emily Osmond: [00:11:20] Cool. So, can I start with a few of the mistakes? [Flori says "Totally. Let's talk mistakes"] So, it kind of help set the scene. And, so, this is what I see happening. First of all, I know people can get quite stuck on focusing on the wrong metric. So they can focus on thinking that they have to have a lot of followers and almost their focus, and I'm sure you've seen this, too, it's kind of like, oh, I'm just trying to get some more followers on Instagram. And I'm like, that's the wrong focus. If you've got two hundred followers, you need to be putting your focus onto how you're actually growing your business using those two hundred followers. And the women I've worked with that have grown their businesses, it's not because they built 10,000 followers. They might have a few hundred followers, but they understand this. I can go into this more when I get to kind of like my process, I'll take you through to understand how they can basically turn those followers into their clients. So, that's the first thing I say. Let's just forget about worrying how many followers you have. Don't put your focus there. [Flori agrees] Let's just figure out how you can actually use Instagram to grow your business. I guess on that, too, is a couple of kind of lead off points. And, I find that some people use Instagram almost and this probably sounds weird because people think this is what you should be doing it for. But they use it as a content-sharing platform. And, so they get quite anxious. They're like, oh, I haven't shared anything in the last day. I should share something. I've had people that work with me that have been sharing like two posts a day or three posts a day. And I'm like, what are you doing? And they're sole traders. So, I'm like let's just actually focus. And, this is why I say what's really, really well on Instagram is let's focus on a couple of like great quality posts per week. [Flori says "OK. So like, how many?"] Yeah. Yeah. So again, there's no rule. But I find that when people pull back from posting every day... Now I say I work predominantly with small business owners and sole traders, so for them, bestto put their efforts into like [inaudible]areas in their business and making sales and use the time that they spend on Instagram to share, let's say like two, three, maybe up to four great quality posts per week. And what happens is that we focus on sharing content that basically is doing something for our business. Again, I can get into kind of like that first step where I talk about strategy. But what happens when you, I call it like posting with a strategy or posting with purpose, if people are going to engage on that post and the more people, and I'm not sure how much you know about, this might be something that you teach or you know all about, but basically, on Instagram, the more engagement you get on one post, the more people Instagram is going to show your posts to your followers. And then, the people that have engaged, so, for instance, if you left a comment or liked one of my posts. Next time I post, Instagram is going to say, OK, well, Flori was interested in your last post, let's push up your post in the news feed so she sees your next posts. And, so what happens if people are just sharing like, this is what I see all the time, they might share a pretty photo and then they might say like happy Tuesday. But I don't think either you or me would be like oh great post, that really connected with me. [Flori agrees] We wouldn't feel compelled to leave a comment or share it with friends or share it to our Instagram story. And that post is probably not going to get great engagement. You or that person's followers are actually going to see that post. And then, next time they post, your people will see the next one, too. Well, basically, that's why I say let's actually focus on how we can craft like really great content that more of our followers see it, more of them engage. And that's going to do a lot more for our business. [Flori agrees] Hopefully, that one helps. A couple of other things on what's working too is really Instagram stories, which I'm sure you've noticed as well. It's where a lot of attention is and Instagram stories is actually the fastest-growing product from Facebook because we know Facebook owns Instagram. So, what I try to encourage people to do is to show themselves on their Instagram stories at least weekly. And people say, I just look shocking or I don't have makeup on every day or I've got nothing to talk about. I say, look, just try once a week to get on Instagram stories. And, for instance, I've got my lipstick on today and I've got a few things in the diary. So maybe I'll use Tuesday. Oh, my God, it's not Tuesday, Monday. [both laugh] You might have a day a week that you might, you know, you feel good. Put a time in your diary and just film some Instagram stories. And, I also say it's actually not even that important what you say. The most important thing is that you're showing up in your stories and people is seeing your face. And people are saying, wow, OK, she's kind of like representing your brand and showing that you're confident in what you have to offer. And, if someone starts seeing your face every week, it's very hard for them to forget you. And when they know what you're selling and when they're ready to buy that, they're going to think of you for the other people that they might just be a couple of posts from that say happy Tuesday. So, Instagram stories is super, super key.And that's one of the other things to in terms of some people are very invisible on their own Instagram feed and we can't see who's behind the account, who's behind the business. So, you want to make sure that you put your name and your Instagram profile so people know who to address you as when they want to comment on your posts, send you a direct message. Get your face in your news feed in the post and show up on Instagram stories as well. So, those are key things.

Flori Pyke: [00:16:38] OK. I love it. I think in particular when you're talking about, you know, showing your face on Insta stories. I mean, that speaks so much to such a resounding truth which gets echoed I feel like every week in some way, shape or form on this podcast. And that's like, you know, people buy from people, right? And I mean, it it's a whole like, know and trust factor. And that really plays to that truth. So, totally agreed on that front.

Emily Osmond: [00:17:05] I can give you a few tips as well when it comes to filming stories. [Flori says "Great. Please"] And I know like, this is what I see my students. They're very, very anxious the first time, which is totally normal. So what? And then all I said, just do another one. Just do another one and go. Because you will feel more natural and comfortable. [Flori agrees] Few key things. Just make sure that people are looking. Make sure that you are looking when you're filming at the little lens at the camera rather than at the screen. [Flori agrees] Otherwise, it looks like you're kind of looking down. So, just make eye contact with the audience by looking at the camera and try and smile and probably like over smile and try and bring energy. Because that's kind of how you will make people feel. [Flori agrees] Even though you might be terrified, just try and smile. And, it's also a good idea to have a little bit of an introduction, share a couple of key messages and then if you can have a call to action at the end, which can also about how we're using Instagram for our business. [Flori agrees]. I say like don't even worry about this the first few times. Just get yourself on stories, but then you can start thinking, right, what do I want my audience to do? [Flori agrees] And it's the same in Instagram stories and it's the same in posts, it's all about having a call to action, which is like a key marketing purpose anyway. OK. So, if you haven't already, come and join our email list or we put two tickets left to our next event like swipe up or visit the link and apply to come and join.What are you telling your audience to do next?

Flori Pyke: [00:18:29] OK. I think those are some awesome tips. Now, another thing I wanted to kind of further expand on was, you know, you talked about the fact that for a lot of your clients, right, and your students who are business owners themselves, that your recommendation is basically to, you know, post less but make it high quality, right? Like post with a purpose. And one thing off the back of that that you said is, you know, because of wearing all the hats are focusing on doing a million things. And for me, that really resonated because, you know, for us, for instance, as a brand like Instagram is certainly not something that has been a huge focus. It's definitely been a focus in that we've constantly had like a consistent presence there. But it's not a huge driver of sales, right? And so, what are your thoughts in terms of like let's talk a bit more around how Instagram fits into like the marketing ecosystem? You know, like if you've got an objective with your marketing, you know, how are we using Instagram?

Emily Osmond: [00:19:33] Cool. Well, this might be a good time to share like my process. [Flori says "Yeah. Let's do that"] So, first of all, like I break down Instagram marketing to five steps. I know you're quite aligned with this as well. You've got to start with a strategy. You've got to start with like objectives rather than just diving into marketing. [Flori says "Yes"]. So, the first step is all about your strategy. And, it's really, like I get my students to start on right, what's your business vision? And then we look at what are your goals? What your specific, actionable, measurable goals? And we might look at right three-month goal. And then, what is your content that you can share based on those goals, which then helps prevent the post that it just do nothing for your business? So, it's like, right, if you have an event coming up, let's say, then your content can be around like driving ticket sales or communicating the benefits of attending the event and even to go deeper into that with content. I break it into four different types of content, too, which might be helpful for your audience here. So, it shouldn't be any surprise. The first one is all about connection, about that business owner showing up in their news feeds and basically sharing like it could be how you've overcome some of the challenges that you know your audience face. It could be, what else could be, busting some industry myths and positioning yourself as the expert here. So, it's all about connection. Another one is about value. And, I think this one can get misunderstood because people think, right, to give my audience value, I have to share tips. It's not necessarily the case. So, if you're a photographer like you're actually giving great value by sharing incredible photos. Your audience don't necessarily need tips from you. But I've seen my students have been successful with photography who actually just bring themselves a bit more into their feeds with their audience, connect with them, not just the pretty photos. But anyway, but for some other people, it's like sharing five tips or a little mini-guide or that type of thing under value.And I like people to think about sharing posts of value is why is your audience following you, why would they decide to click follow? What’s in it for them that they’re getting out of your post? The next one is credibility and it's going to be woven in a little bit. For instance, if you're speaking on a stage, get a photo. Get that on your Instagram. When you have a podcast, share that in your stories. If you won a local award, share that. Or customer testimonials or case studies, it's just allowing your audience to basically be able to trust you, and you get people results or that you've been seen in the media, which is great, basically proof for them. So that's credibility. And then, the last one is promotion. Just kind of weavedthrough all your post. And, this is when we talk about that call to action at the end, too. So that you're actually saying, hey, did you know that we actually work with this type of person, book your call, like book your introductory call, or your strategy session or whatever the next step is. Make sure that you're doing that in your Instagram, because I see a lot of businesses that just share great content but they don't have any call actions and they never actually like tell their audience how they can buy from them. So, yeah, connection, value, credibility and promotion. And, if you just check before you post like does one of these or does this post cover one of those, then you're going to be on the right track. And I don't care if you want to throw a few fun posts as well, but you kind of stick to them and it's really, really good. So that's kind of the strategy part. [Flori says "OK, so that's step 1 of 5. Yeah?"] Step 1. And from there, right, what are your content categories from that? What are kind of your key areas that you can be posting about? So, you're really really clear. So, once the content strategy is in place, we then look at who is your audience. And so we go out and do some customer research and everyone could do this, put together a survey and send it out to some of your past customers and try and get in their own words like what are the benefits of working with you and all these different things and then, you can use that messaging in your own content. So, you basically have a much clearer idea of who your audience is, what their challenges are, what their desires are, maybe what their hesitations are around working with you so you can really understand them, but then turn that into your messaging.

Flori Pyke: [00:23:25] Yeah. I love that. It's like that those open-ended questions like using exactly your customer's language around, you know, their pain points, their pleasure points, and literally weaving that in as part of your marketing message is totally invaluable, right? Because it will connect and resonate so much with your audience.

Emily Osmond: [00:23:47] That's right. And, it stops us like using our own language which we think is clear, but often it won't make any sense. And then, we look at how we can weave that through our profile, through our Instagram profile. We then know like what hashtags to use to reach your ideal client and what they might be searching. And then, just check how our aesthetics are looking. But aesthetic is like in days gone by. I think Instagram feed aesthetic, this thing used to be like make it perfect. [inaudible]. And, you might have noticed this, too, Flori. But the trend is kind of moving away from that. And people just want to see a bit more real. So now, I post like Instagram videos where I've got a kind of weird look going on my face, but I'll post that to my feed and it doesn't look super curated, but that helps get engagement because people would just love to see more real. So, that's little tips or for people like make sure your feed isn't looking overly curated either. So that was step 2, understanding our audience and then moving on to step 3, which is all about story. And so, this is where we start looking at Instagram story, Instagram TV, Instagram live. But, it's also about how we can craft great stories and great posts. And, it's all about getting engagement. I kind of touched on that a little bit, but it's like what's the purpose of your post? You always need like a little hook at the start, which is the marketing term, but something to grab attention. So, rather than just saying oh today I did this and this, an alternative might be would not guess what happened today. So, then I'd be like, hey, what happened today? I have to read that. So, it's like, how can you say, how can we share really concisely some really key messages or some learning points for your audience? And then, let's wrap it up with the call to action. Same type of thing with Instagram stories. We just look at how you can use great messaging. So that one's story. Then, we moved to number 4, which is system. And I kind of said to you at the start like I'm not super attached to Instagram. If that changes, then let's look at what's next. But I guess a key part now of using Instagram is email. And, you know, a lot of people have, well, I find some people have resistance to this or they're like, oh, I never read emails myself or people think that you're spamming them. And email is still, I think it's still like the number one way that you can actually make sales online with your email. So, I almost say like Instagram isn't necessarily your sales platform. Perfect for brand building, it's perfect for connecting with your audience. [Flori agrees] And, it's fantastic for driving signups. You’ll still make sales on Instagram but let's make sure that you're not like putting all your eggs in one basket on Instagram. Because it's a fairly small percentage of people, even though it's higher than other platforms like Facebook, it's not all of your audience seeing all of your posts. With gathering e-mail addresses, I teach like let's get you a great lead magnet so people want to give you the e-mail address, let's create an opt-in page and so you can actually communicate with your audience on a couple of different platforms. But make sure that you get into their inbox.

Flori Pyke: [00:26:45] Yes. I love it. And, I think that is something I really want to highlight, that you said, you know, Instagram is not necessarily like a vehicle for selling. And I really agree. Like it's more of that middle of the funnel activity, you know, where you are building that relationship with your community, you know, and often like top of the funnel, we might find out about you via Instagram, but then you can really nurture them via your socials. And, I think that's a really important caveat because I think a lot of people get really hung up on driving sales through Instagram. [Emily says "And it happens, but you know, it's like let's get into e-mail list."] That's right. And also, the thing is right. Things change. Tomorrow, your account gets suspended for X, Y, Z reason. I've seen it happen a lot, to be honest. And then you lose, you know, you're 20,000 followers and you've got none on an email list and you're screwed because it's not your asset, right? [Emily agrees] Yes. No, I love it. This is great. OK, so system. Got it.

Emily Osmond: [00:27:44] And then, number 5 is sales. So, it's like let's look at your sales messages. Let's make sure you're not trying to sell like different things. Let's choose a couple of great things. Make sure their messaged really, really well from what we know about your audience and what their challenges and desires are. Let's then, like and I just teach in The Modern Marketing Collective, a simple sales funnel. So, it's for those that really just getting started. Let's put together a great like email sequence that will take your audience from your Instagram to joining your email newsletter. Well, actually, I say don't call it a newsletter. No one wants a newsletter from you. Joining your email list. Let's introduce them further to you. Maybe share some customer testimonials. Give them a special offer. And I say let's make it an irresistible offer. And, give them a great reason to buy now. Start tracking your conversions from people that like join your email list and then buy from you, but then go on and keep nurturing them through your email list because some people aren't ready to buy straight away. It might be a few months down the track or even like a year or two down the track. It's a matter of like let's start making some sales there for your business.

Flori Pyke: [00:28:43] I love it. OK. I'm going to hop back to number 2 when you talked about not having a feed that's too curated and I certainly like, I'm literally for those of you who are watching this via YouTube, you'll see, I'm like literally looking at our feed right now. [Emily says "I can have a look, too."] And, I feel like we're not ticking that box. Like we are pretty curated. And I do agree with you that, you know, I agree. I feel like the more kind of freestyle you are and the more organic and happy to kind of let it hang out, the more that people really... That resonates and sticks with people. I mean, it goes to that whole premise of like, you know, reality TV in a way. Do you know what I mean? Like people want to see the real you. And, so that's a big piece of... That's some serious food for thought for us over here.

Emily Osmond: [00:29:39] You want me to give a little bit of feedback? [Flori says "Yeah. Give me the feedback."] No. First of all, you're doing great. So, you're doing it right. Oh, now there's a couple of things you could do. [Flori says "Yeah. Love it."] So, even like just setting up your highlights, which I don't want to confuse people because that’s something totally new.[Flori says "Yeah. Yeah. I know. We got to do it. Yeah."] OK. But that could be something cool. But, I always say like a good place to start for everyone is looking at your best performing content. Whether it's you or you probably got someone else on the team that might look at, right, well, one content performing really, really well. And, I know that you check quite a few quotes and I've just had a quick look. Some of them like getting really great engagement and some of them don't. I try and say, like, write down something that's maybe a bit unique because if they're quotes that we keep seeing everywhere, then they're not super engaging for people. Like the one that went really, really well for your audience "We should all start referring to our age as levels because I'm at level forty-three. Sounds way more badass than just being an old person." And, like I feel that's not something I've ever seen before and it's hilarious. And you've got a lot engagement. Whereas maybe one that's just a bit of a shorter quote that might have "I don't have dreams. I have goals." But people were like, oh maybe doesn't resonate as much. So, they keep on scrolling. And then, a couple of other things. It's like I said I've been doing on my feed is sharing a video. And so, it doesn't have a pretty cover. People then go and click on it because it kind of stands out. But it's like oh that's not that perfect looking. And so even like when you share like Instagram TV I think or videos I should say, like instead of having a pretty artwork, you could just have the video itself or something. [Flori agrees] And just like trialing and testing and then instead of like I guess more the stock style photo. What is a photo that couldn't appear in anyone else's account? [Flori says "Yeah. OK. Got it"] It could be just like a cute selfie of you and your business partner or something like that that people start to actually see more of because it's like, oh, that's really cool. We're not perfect. That's like a couple of ways that we can work around that.

Flori Pyke: [00:31:44] Yeah. No, I love it. I'm like looking at your feed right now. [Emily says "Of course"] And yeah, no, I can see what you mean. No, I love it. And I can definitely see like what you're saying, especially when I take a look at your feed and the top half certainly because it looks like.... [Emily says "I've changed."] You've changed tack a bit, which, you know, we talked about pivoting. But yeah, I can definitely see what you mean in terms of just making it a little bit, yeah, just less curated and more natural, you know. All right, cool.

Emily Osmond: [00:32:19] I can only really post when... You'll see my post tend to be quite long. Why more into long-form content? I find that can get better engagement sometimes. [Flori agrees] Like this is one of the worst things I see people are doing is when they've maybe posted a blog post and then they share or they've recently done a podcast or whatever they're like core content is, then they share on Instagram, "hey new blog post up. Click the link in our bio to go look". And it’s like no-one wants to come off Instagram.Give them the key messages and the key learnings in that post and then try and tell them to move off the platform. So, write down like the five key points from that blog post and put it in your Instagram post and then you could "hey, let us know which one resonated most with you" and use that call to action at the end.

Flori Pyke: [00:33:05] Yeah. No, I love it. Because then obviously that will also drive engagement on the post, which makes the post be seen by more people and so on and so forth. OK, cool. [Emily agrees] OK. So, talk to me about Instagram TV, IG TV, because obviously, I feel like I'm hearing more and more people are starting, you know, this was a feature that was introduced quite a while ago now. I'd say like a year and a half or so ago, I think. But, you know, I've seen like some people who, like, jumped on board right away, including myself, and kind of fell off the bandwagon, including myself. And now, I'm seeing a bit more of like this wave of people starting their channels. And yeah, I want to hear from you, like, what are your thoughts around this? What's the impact of IG TV? Do we need to be on this? What's the go?

Emily Osmond: [00:33:53] Cool. So, the way I approach this is let's get you started first of all on like just posting some Instagram stories, then let's get you showing out your face in Instagram stories, get you doing some lives and then move you to start bringing Instagram TV to your strategy. When it comes to IG TV, people aren't quite yet on board checking out channels. So, users of Instagram aren't going onto Instagram and then going straight into looking at IG TV channels. [Flori agrees] That's just not what our behaviour is. So, I say like, go ahead and use IG TV. But, the key thing is make sure that when you have the option which says share preview to feed, click that and I've tested this myself and those that I just shared direct to my Instagram TV channel get way less views than those that I actually share that preview first to my feed. Then, it like basically all your followers that see your posts are going to see that first minute of your IG TV and then after a minute, it pauses and says keep watching on IG TV or something like that and then you can then click over. But yeah, if you're only sharing it at your IG TV channel without sharing the preview to your feed, it's probably not going to be doing a whole lot for the business yet. That's kind of the way I see IG TV and it's probably something that will continue to build over time. But that's kind of like my top tip for how to use it there and just test as well. [Flori agrees] Like I'm always testing different things. I've just created some artwork for one my latest podcast episodes that I shared to IG TV, but it got less engagement than a video of me, which is kind of what I was saying you need to do, do a video of you. You know, maybe I won't do that consistently. I might do that for a few episodes, but I could go to get on video camera more. So that's what I'll then focus on I know what gets best engagement. So, I'm always testing and just like I kind of say, just have like, treat it as, yeah, test Instagram. Don't get caught up and try to make anything perfect. Test things. Look at what the engagement is. Look at what's the impact to your business when you do different things. And, it's totally OK then to be like, right, that didn't work. Let's try something else. And also, just try and have fun with it.

Flori Pyke: [00:36:01] Yes. I love that. You know what? I mean, the thing is, though, right? I mean, we talk about Instagram and, you know, testing and having fun. I mean the reality is really that's the approach you should have with business, because you know what? Like, it's all a big test like...

Emily Osmond: [00:36:18] And that's why I love business. It's just like a puzzle. It's like ooh we haven't done that. Let's try that next time.

Flori Pyke: [00:36:23] Totally. And, you know, eventually you find a bit of a formula that works and you go with it, but you're always working on making it better as well. [Emily agrees] So, I totally agree. OK. Cool. And final question before we start to wrap up. What about Insta right now? And like, what matters and what doesn't? Because, like, I feel like a lot of people get, you know, talking about testing and not making things too perfect. Are there any other messages here that we should take on board in terms of what we should focus on and what actually matters right now?

Emily Osmond: [00:36:57] Yeah, cool. So I would like, as a bit of a summary, I guess, I would say let's like almost for those that are posting a lot of content, let's maybe pull back on that and save the time that you're spending like trying to post every day with actually thinking, right, what are my business goals? What am I going to share around them? And then, post a couple of great posts per week that are really designed to either or to do both of these things, to drive engagement or to drive like email signups or sales. And, you find, like I find ones that are actually full promotions. They're like "hey I've got this event coming up" or "doors are open to my program." Like they don't get a whole lot of engagement. That doesn't matter. It's like, you know, let's see what the business results are from them. But then, the rest of the time you want to be curating posts that are designed to spark conversation and create engagement and build relationships. And also, on that, too, which we haven't touched on. But, in terms of what's working, when people comment on your posts, make sure that you respond back and don't just say thanks. Like actually have a little bit of a conversation. So, I might, if you commented on one of my posts, I'd probably look at your profile. I'll check what your name is, which is why it's really important to have your name in your profile. And I'd say, oh, thanks so much, Flori. Also, congratulations on your latest podcast episode. It's great. Or just try and give them a bit of a, you build a relationship there rather than just responding thanks or just liking their comment. Because if someone did that to me, I'd be like, oh, cool. Probably, maybe I won't bother commenting next time. [Flori agrees] So, focus on that. Like I said, do try and get on Instagram stories. It's really where a lot of the attention is. It's Facebook's fastest-growing product. So even, like I said, probably share more Instagram stories than posts. And when you share posts, you can actually share that into your Instagram stories to drive your audience there. Pressing that little aeroplane symbol and get that in Insta stories, tell people why they should go check it out. And, I guess people are wondering about live video too, which we haven't covered. It's similar to what I say about Instagram stories. Like it doesn't almost matter what you say. It's showing up. And when you go live on Instagram, your followers are going to get a notification. And so, I know the people that go live like once a week, I'm like they're smashing it. They're doing great. And, I don't even really watch the lives. Sometimes I check in on them. But that person is always front of mind for me. I always get notification from them every week saying like so-and-so is going live on Instagram.

Flori Pyke: [00:39:20] Yeah. It's like a touchpoint, right? Like even if they don't. It's so true, right? Like even if you don't watch it, that person's front of mind. Yeah. At least once a week, you know, like that extra touchpoint. You know, we take six to twelve touchpoints. So, I love it. OK. I love all this messaging because I feel like it's really highlighting that like less is more like quality over quantity almost. Do you know what I mean?

Emily Osmond: [00:39:45] Yeah. Totally. And I was just gonna say like something else that's happening on Instagram right now is and it's happening like in most social platforms is that conversation is moving from the public sphere to the private sphere. And, I laugh because I remember like on Facebook, maybe 10 years ago, I would share posts to my friend's newsfeed. We used to do that like, "hey, great to see you yesterday. Have a great day today." And you get those like 10 year like [Flori says "reminders"] Memories. I'm like, oh, my gosh, a can’t believe we do that. Now, I find like personally, my Instagram inbox is quite full. And that's where a lot of messages and communications are happening. So that's just it's something to keep in mind for the people like you might find engagement is same on your post or maybe a little bit lower. But, a lot of people and now especially for using Instagram stories. They're responding to your story. [Flori agrees] I think that's a good place to build relationships and to see if someone's right for your program or your service or your product. [Flori agrees] It's great to be like, "hey, you know, I've got this happening. Check it out. You might like it."

Flori Pyke: [00:40:54] Yeah definitely. I love it. All right. Awesome. So much goodness. All right. So, Em if we want to find out more about you, can you give us, like your socials, your website? Give us the goods.

Emily Osmond: [00:41:07] Awesome. Well, it's just Emily Osmond everywhere. So Emily and then O-s-m-o-n-d. So emilyosmond dot com. You can find me on Instagram at emilyosmond as well. And then, podcast, The Emily Osmond Show.

Flori Pyke: [00:41:19] Love it. OK. And we normally end this with a parting thought and I'm going to put you on the line. You're going to share the parting thought for us.

Emily Osmond: [00:41:31] I think, can I share like my favourite mantra? [Flori says "Yeah. Love it."] Awesome. So, one of my favourite mantras is you can if you think you can. [Flori agrees] And that really motivates me. [Flori says "That's really good"]. If I'm thinking about something, there's no reason why I can't achieve that or I can't have it. But you've got to believe that you can. You can have anything you want. And, I think we both work with a lot of women in business. You can create anything you want. You can have any business you want. Figure out what really inspires you and lights you up and then go for it. You can achieve that.

Flori Pyke: [00:42:05] Yeah. I really love that. It's so simple, but it's so true. And yeah, something that I can imagine after kind of coming across that yourself. You would frequently kind of repeat yourself because it is so true, right? And it's such a good like guiding principle.

Emily Osmond: [00:42:23] But yeah, you gotta believe in yourself first. No one else can do that for you. [Flori agrees] You got to be the one that's like no, you know, I'm going to back myself. I'm going to believe in myself. I'm going to invest in myself. And then, you can achieve anything.

Flori Pyke: [00:42:34] Totally. It's all about the mindset, baby. [Emily agrees and both laugh] All right, love it, Em. Thank you so much. It's been so much fun connecting with you. I've had a blast.

Emily Osmond: [00:42:45] Oh, me too, Flori. Thank you so much for having me on the show and looking forward to speaking again soon.

Flori Pyke: [00:42:50] Totally. All right. Now, love it. To our listeners, if you love the poddy, please make sure to leave us a review. We appreciate it so much. And that's a wrap. So, ladies, as always, remember to elevate your business game.



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We're incredibly excited to be able to share our business insights via the Raising Her Game Podcast. We aim to provide you the very best content each week to help you elevate your business game so you can take your life and business to the next level. We'll tackle the topics that will get you increasing your productivity, mastering your mindset and strategising like a marketer. If you're enjoying the show, you can help spread the love and pay it forward by leaving a review . It will make it easier for other female entrepreneurs in business like you, to find us and kick their own goals.






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