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Then read on for insights that will drive you to rise to the next level in your life and business.

Anna chats to Social Media Strategist Stevie Dillon about social media’s place in your marketing plan and what to do to maximise its reach and impact on your bottom line.

This woman is your absolute go to when it comes to your social media strategy and maximising its impact for your business. One of the things we love most... she totally GETS that social media is part of a much bigger puzzle - and together we share a truly important lesson around social media's place in the marketing ecosystem - and what absolutely MUST sit behind your social media to drive results in your business.
So if you’re wondering why your hashtags aren't working... or why you can't get any organic reach on FB... or why your socials just aren't driving you those sales.... tune in!

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  • How a law graduate started writing a social media blog, left the security of the corporate world and now owns her own thriving digital business
  • Stevie’s #1 frustration when it comes to the social media marketing world
  • The key elements every business owner needs to underpin their social media strategy
  • How the social media approach for a service business differs to a product business




Stevie is a former lawyer tuned social media marketer. She loves to educate and inspire passionate business owners lift their social media game so that they can build a profitable business [and life!] they love. She's spent 10 years working with some of the biggest brands in Australia (think Red Bull, the Queensland Reds and one of Queensland's biggest real estate brands), fine tuning a niche in social media marketing. But she also saw small businesses spending their time on the wrong things. Obsessing over the tools and followers. Ignoring strategy. And struggling to stand out. It became her mission to change that.





Facebook: @steviesayssocial
Instagram: @steviesayssocial






Anna Jonak: [00:00:43] Welcome to Episode 29 of the Raising Her Game Podcast. We're Anna and Flori, the queens of small business, and we deliver female entrepreneurs both the business and mindset tools needed to start, grow and scale your small business for success. And hello, hello [Stevie says hello, hello]. A massive welcome. We've got an exciting episode today. So you've got Anna J. driving the podcast and I'm very excited because I have the lovely Stevie from Stevie Says Social in front of me as you can see for those of you watching on video on YouTube. And I'm fan girling a bit here I'm going to say. I'm very very excited to have you here. And if people don't know you, they absolutely should. They should also be tuning into a podcast, it's been newly renamed actually, let me get it right. Talk Social to Me Podcast. That's right. And so yes a new brand, a new name. And guys if you don't know anything about social media, this lady is the one you want to be following, from doing it without being salesy, to producing quality content that people are going to engage with, getting the right followers which is super important. Basically anything when it comes to our social media strategy and how it fits into a bigger marketing strategy, this lady is in the know. So a massive welcome. I'm very excited to have you here. How are you going?

Stevie Dillon: [00:02:05] I'm good. I'm excited to be on here. Thanks for having me. That was such a nice talk up - I'll take that.

Anna Jonak: [00:02:12] You'll take that. Well it's very very exciting. Like I said when you're watching someone from afar and you're seeing them doing amazing things. We've been kind of stalking your journey. There's a few people out there that you know you just kind of admire and you like their vibe and we're very pleased to have been able to connect with you and learn more from you which is awesome. So...

Stevie Dillon: [00:02:30] Likewise. I got into a bit, I was saying to Flori the other day actually when I did the online workshop with you guys that I discovered your podcast and binged about eight episodes all at once. So the feeling is mutual.

Anna Jonak: [00:02:43] Nice. Yes. Well I've got to say I love that you get on a rant which we'll definitely be talking about later. I was listening to an episode the other day, I was like yes she really got into that and you know what, I think that's what I love about people when they're on the podcast when it is just you kind of get into the zone and you're just being really real about what's real and important for you [Stevie agrees]. And I trust we'll get into a bit of that today. But first up I'm really keen to understand your journey because you know, you started out in a whole other career in a very corporate kind of like you know, I don't want to be mean but kind of stiff career when you think about law compared to where you are right now and I guess I'm really keen to understand how you kind of start on that journey and then how you've turned the corner and came to doing what you do now.

Stevie Dillon: [00:03:27] Yeah. It's not me. Law is definitely the stiffest profession out there [both laughing] and I actually only ever decided to study law because I was at school and I got good grades and I actually remember sitting in the careers counsellor's office when I was 16 trying to decide what to study. And I'd gotten this scholarship and they were like Okay what do you want to do. And I was like well I want to do journalism but then I looked down the list of potential degrees and if I did journalism and law the value of it was double so I was like well I'm getting the most out of my scholarship if I do journalism and law and then somehow ended up studying law then did five years in law [Anna says holy moly]. And the way that it works for me finishing up a uni is, all of the law firms are really aggressive about their hiring so they'll come in and they'll kind of make it sound amazing. And I was like well I could kind of go into a cadetship in journalism or I could you know go and work in a shiny law firm in the city and it sounds amazing. Anyway, so I ended up doing that and hated it. It was nothing like I thought it was going to be. And stuck with it for a few years and then just got completely jack of it to be honest and have worked at Red Bull when I was at uni and just from that had loved the idea of marketing and so completely changed professions and ended up working for the Queensland Reds which is the sports team up here, learnt so much about marketing and then just basically hounded anyone I could in terms of my bosses to try and get into digital, learnt as much as I could until they couldn't say no to giving me a job. And went from that. So yeah I was doing that for a few years then went to another place working in digital exclusively and then went out on my own with Stevie Says Social a year ago on the 19th of November. Also a year ago...

Anna Jonak: [00:05:17] Get out. Only a year [Stevie agrees]. That's insane. So, I mean it's such an adventure going out on your own isn't it? Like kind of like taking the leap. What was the impetus for you to just go right, that's it, I'm on my own, I'm going to go do this?

Stevie Dillon: [00:05:31] So I started a social media blog. I do not know why. About a year and a half ago where every single Saturday I would sit down and write like epic 3000 word blog post on a different element of social media and I would give up my weekends to do it and everyone was like "you crazy?", and I was like no I think I'm onto something here I don't know what it is. I want to start a business eventually. And so literally from that I was doing that for about six months and people were coming to me and saying so what are your services? What do you do? And I was like well you know eventually one day I'll offer services and it just started to snowball and I remember going to Europe in August last year and I was sitting on a beach with my partner Jules and I was like should I do it? Should I go back and you know like actually make something of this and just like you know make the leap? And I'd spend a month in Europe. And it was kind of the first time that I'd felt really free for a long time. And I was like well you know what this is an amazing feeling. I don't want to go back and forget what this feels like. And so I went back and literally resigned like was Googling "How do I quit my job on good terms" about five minutes before I went and saw my boss and it was all fine. He was fine. It was fine. I ended up launching with a whole lot of clients and it's gone from there. But that was honestly the scariest part.

Anna Jonak: [00:06:47] Oh that's amazing. I love the fact that you just, you kind of had that feeling that you know, that you wanted that freedom, you wanted that thing for you and that you just took the leap and went for it because so many people have those moments when they know or they really want to do something and they're not brave enough to do it. So it's really awesome. And especially having, I mean you've done it twice with going from a corporate career when you spent a lot of time and would have invested a lot of money in a career like law to then kind of sidestep and go hey I'm just going to start at the bottom again or work my way up in social and find something else. But you're clearly obsessed.

Stevie Dillon: [00:07:21] I am. I'm on a mission [both laughing].

Anna Jonak: [00:07:25] Obsessed with all things social and I love your business name. I love the whole Stevie Says Social. I love the whole kind of vibe that you've got going on. It's awesome. So well wow what a journey. And hopefully that even just inspires people just to take the leap because I mean one year in and you've gone from a place where I know from chatting to you personally that you know you've got to a point when you just filled your books with clients to the point where you couldn't take any more on and are now in the stages of launching a series of online programs and opportunities so that you can maximise your reach, help more people.

Stevie Dillon: [00:08:00] Yeah. And it's amazing and it's something that I couldn't have ever anticipated a year and a half ago. So funny you don't know the path it's laid out ahead of you and I had no idea. And I was so scared. Like honestly just sitting in bed going, have I just made the dumbest decision of my whole entire life? And it's just so funny. This momentum keeps going you do one thing and then it's so funny that that path kind of presents itself as you go along and that's definitely what's happened to me.

Anna Jonak: [00:08:28] You've got definitely got to learn to fly by the seat of your pants so I think it's kind of almost you could try and script out the journey or map everything out and how it's gonna go. But you know the twists and turns change so frequently it's just kind of been able to ride the wave isn't it? And just kind of go ahead. Okay we're going this way. We'll see what happens next [Stevie agrees and both laughing].

Stevie Dillon: [00:08:46] I know and it's exciting though. Like I just kind of think, look there's so much work involved in it, you guys had known this as well. But the type of work and the excitement of knowing that you're doing something for yourself is just a whole different ballgame to working for somebody else. And I thrive of that so yeah.

Anna Jonak: [00:09:05] Not just working for someone else but you get the beauty of it, it's the fact that you're also then empowering others to do the same. Because I guess in the field that we're both in, when it comes to helping them you know, helping others in their small business is that you're helping others to kind of reach their dreams and see them out and you play a role in that which is also like, just like you know, goose bumps. It's like oh my god if you can help someone transform their strategy, we'll give them the insights that give them the edge then it's like you know they get to experience what it's like when their business is not firing properly as well.

Stevie Dillon: [00:09:34] So true and I just actually think we're so lucky. I know personally working in marketing it's like one of the only kind of professions where regardless of what business somebody has, they need your services and so many people don't know the fundamentals and they've got amazing businesses and you just kind of like I can see how I can help you and that is so exciting.

Anna Jonak: [00:09:55] I'm with you all the way. We're very lucky to do what we do. And now I want to talk to you a little bit about basically what you do do and as I said before going on a bit of a rant [both laughing]. I want to talk about what is it that you find, when people come to you that kind of gets your goat a little bit or kind of like this is a frustration when people come to you with an expectation around what you can deliver them in terms of services or perhaps what it is they're not doing in their business? And you know there's gaps or holes because we all have them when clients come to you with expectations. And I think that for you, we've discussed there's a pretty prevalent kind of like thing repeatedly that comes across again and again.



Stevie Dillon: [00:10:40] Sure. Yes I do love to rant on the podcast [both laughing]. I think that comes from not having the luxury of somebody else to bounce off. You have Flori [both laughing]. So I can just just go off but I know that one of the kind of things this is probably the one you're referring to recently because I've recorded a couple of podcasts on it is the frustration that I have and it's completely understandable because as I said so many people don't come from a marketing background but coming to me with questions around the wrong thing. So for example, a business will come to me and I'll say I'm not getting any results on my Instagram, can you please help me out? I'd love some help with hashtags for example and a lot of the time sure the hashtag strategy might not be on point but they don't have the fundamentals in place and all of the hash-tagging or whatever it is I'm just like calling out hashtags as an example won't actually get them results. And so what I mean by that is they're putting all of their eggs into the social media basket without thinking about for example a business plan. And then from there a marketing plan which may or may not incorporate a social media strategy. And then when it comes to a social media strategy it could be you know Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn and they're only focusing on Instagram because that's what everyone is obsessing over and then when it comes to Instagram they're really focused on hashtags so they're so lasered in on one thing which is really kind of like right at the very end in terms of what they should be focusing on and they're not actually getting the rest of the pieces of the puzzle in place. So as a social media person it's quite hard because you know there's so many other elements involved. And when you're just focusing on the social media tactics rather than strategy so the random bits and pieces it's going to be really hard to get results without having the rest of the things in place.

Anna Jonak: [00:12:34] Totally. And you know the reason I wanted you to kind of talk about that is because we see so many people, it's the same thing for us, so many people come to us and it's like they set up a website and they set up socials and they wonder why the business isn't firing. It's like well I've done everything and it's like well have you? Do you actually know who you're talking to and have you actually ascertained there's an interest for what you're doing? Do you know your marketplace? Who you're up against? How to position yourself? [Stevie agrees] Like it's huge. There are so many gaps that people miss. And I think it's so important that people are aware of the fact that they need to understand the fundamentals so that when it comes to social which can have a huge impact on their business that they need to know who they're talking to, why they need to have a strategy behind it. It needs to be part of a sales funnel, something a much bigger picture than just posting every day which obviously has its place [Stevie agrees] but it's not the be all and end all.

Stevie Dillon: [00:13:23] No it's just I think the reason why it comes about like I can see why people do it and I understand it because there's so many pieces of the puzzle that you need to get, but people see social media and it's so sexy and it's so out there and it's so visible that they're like cool if I can nail that, I will get results but they don't see the fact that it's really right at the very end and the people that are actually doing really really well and I look at the people that innately get on social and sure they've got the tactics in place and sure they've got the little bits and pieces but the reason why they're connecting and the reason why they're doing so well actually has nothing to do with social media in terms of the tactics at all.

Anna Jonak: [00:14:01] Tell me more.



Stevie Dillon: [00:14:02] So in terms of what they need to focus on, generally, it's that they don't have one or all of the following in place. So the first is brand and I have this massive obsession with branding at the moment. I absolutely love it. I feel like in a different life I should have been a branding expert but...[both laughing]

Anna Jonak: [00:14:22] You cannot move again. Don't leave us for the next thing.

Stevie Dillon: [00:14:27] But it's so connected with social media. So when I say branding, what I mean is it's so important to have a really clear understanding of number one more than anything, how you are different in the marketplace. So how are you different from every other competitor? Because if you don't differentiate yourself, ultimately you will compete on price which obviously is a race to the bottom and it's not somewhere that you want to be [Anna agrees]. So the easiest way to do that is to think about what it is that you do. So say for example you are a real estate agent so there's a lot of real estate agents out there. How do you differentiate yourself? The best way to do it is to have like connecting like an intersection in terms of what you do. So you might be a real estate agent that focuses on whatever it is but you need to be known for that one thing. So for example there's a great real estate agent working out of Toowoomba at the moment and she's one of the highest grossing real estate agents in Australia and she's just really gone all in on that first home buyer. She really understands kind of that market. She connects with them and she just gets all of that business and she owns that space. And if you're like a seller that's selling a house that would be of interest to a first home buyer. You go to her all the time. So that's how you get traction. The other things with brand to be really aware of are your brand personality so you really need to know what makes you you so this is about like not just being people feel like they kind of have to get on social media or even with their brand in general and they have to be really professional and the thing I would say is that you don't have to be stiff to be professional, you can still be yourself and you can still be sassy or funny or you know warm or whatever it is for your brand. You can still do that and still be a professional business so...



Anna Jonak: [00:16:11] Totally. I think people really resonate with people and I think that a lot of people go out there and they're very much like oh I need to have a professional look or feel, I need to look like this but then they don't inject any of their personality into it or they hide behind visuals that they never show their face. I think in today's world, people want to know who you are, who you're buying from especially if you're investing heavily in some things, you want to know who the person is that you can be working with or you might be more inclined to buy a brand when you see someone taking the time to give you product, you know showing you how the products work and all of these bits and pieces but yet we see a lot of people, a lot of our students they kind of shy away from putting themselves out there when there's a real fear of being seen and being judged. And I mean that's a whole mindset thing there. But ultimately we're massive advocates and the businesses that we've seen doing really well and just generally across the board are those that have kind of put themselves out there and you know kind of ingratiate themselves into their brand and kind of bought that depth to it.

Stevie Dillon: [00:17:12] So important. And it's one of the biggest point of differences that our small businesses have against the big guys. So you know if you're a Woollies or you're Coles or whatever, you don't have the luxury of being able to really kind of inject your own personal brand personality into what you do. So some of those big guys still do a good job of it. They do it in different ways. But the biggest benefit that we have is the fact that you can show your face. You can show like what's going on behind the scenes. You can show all of that sort of stuff. And I think that's so so powerful and I just know that is the stuff that gets engagement. Engagement is the lifeblood of social media and so hard to do when you're first starting out. The first few times you show your face or the first time you do an Instagram live or the first time or whatever. It's really scary. But you're only going to get better by doing it and you just have to get over it.

Anna Jonak: [00:17:57] Yeah also and I kind of one thing I share is to kind of, if you think about the value that you're giving to other people and it being about them as opposed to being about you. So you're kind of projecting outwards and thinking about how you could you know if you do have a service based business especially you know how you can serve someone and how you can impact them and make that the focus on the message and the delivery as opposed to what are people going to think of me. I think [Stevie agrees] getting out there in that way, it's just such a good way because you know that's what most of us are doing it because we want to help create change or you know help someone in some way and it's like when you focus on that being the end result as opposed to you, that's where it's easier to kind of like let go of some of those mindset hang ups.

Stevie Dillon: [00:18:34] Yeah that's an amazing point and it's so true. And I think sort of changing tact a little bit but in terms of what works on social - it is not selling. And so if you can provide value and you're not making it about yourself and you're not talking all about yourself that's what gains traction. So that's another benefit of it as well.

Anna Jonak: [00:18:55] I find that genuinely across the board. I mean the strategy that we've had. I'll be honest we've literally had no social media strategy for the last three years and honest to God [both laughing] like you ask Flori it's been so ad hoc like we've been, I think we took this act of just wanting to add value and give people experiences. So we did a lot of paid traffic so we paid for a lot. You know we paid for ads and then we've created challenges and we've given people experiences and the podcasts. All of these things have given people an opportunity to learn about us and go on a journey with us and be educated and informed. And for us that's worked really really well and then you get the word of mouth and everything else so social has just been an add on in the background that seriously like bless Flori because you know what I didn't even know Instagram was when we first met. Like I literally I just know how to log into it now and look through things. Bless her. She does those sort of things but we're just kind of flying by the seat of our pants on that side of things because it's like you know what, we will share stuff that's up and will put content out, it's only now three years in that we've got to a point where we're like we've actually hired someone into work on Facebook and we're really thinking about our strategy. But I guess from our point we've been able to grow our business like we doubled our revenue this last 10 months. It's insane. And with our strategy. And I can only imagine when we add that layer as well. Then what. But yeah, we see a lot of people really spending tons and tons of time getting caught up in the social media and then what they're not doing is working on a sales funnel so they're not working on the thing that you know the kind of whole journey of they're going to give an experience for the consumer, they're just ending on the end bit, social media.



Stevie Dillon: [00:20:30] Totally. And that's so important and I think that's something that you guys have really well sorted and I think it's great that you teach your students about it because I always think of like social media is like the tip of the iceberg. It's what you see kind of popping out of the water, but it's brand, it's having a really strong content strategy, it's a sales funnel and its traffic that's actually supporting all of that stuff and you need to have sorted in order to get traction with it so you know you could be posting you know once a day on Instagram and getting great engagement and you know it's great content and whatever but at the end of the day especially with a platform like Instagram unless you're a product based business and you have Instagram shoppable, people aren't directly buying off the platform and even then you can't rely on it. So you need to have the other bits and pieces in place in order to go cool, people are starting to know you, like you and trust you off a platform like Instagram you're building that brand and brand is so so important but you need to be able to then leverage that and go, okay cool, this is the next step and it involves getting people off Instagram.

Anna Jonak: [00:21:38] Yeah off Instagram onto a website into an email list so that you can continue the conversation [Stevie agrees].

Stevie Dillon: [00:21:43] Speaking my language [both laughing].

Anna Jonak: [00:21:45] Absolutely. I mean again so many people they don't understand, I think the power of email marketing and I think that there's also a concern about you know people not wanting to be spammed an email and obviously you have to find a balance with how you do all these things. But what would happen. And I think this is a big question. What the hell would we do if Facebook and Instagram just dissipated overnight? Like if that's the only way you run your business what would you do?

Stevie Dillon: [00:22:07] Yeah and the thing is like it's not like it's going to go away but what will happen and what has definitely already happened with Facebook is that the reach on Facebook is significantly reduced now. So I sort of start going around, I don't know if it's true, it makes me really sad if it is but organic reach on Facebook for the average business page now is 2 percent. So for every hundred followers that are connected to your account to people actually seeing something that you post. So basically what Facebook is saying is you know you need to pay in order to really kind of further your own interests. If you're furthering our interests, so for example if you're keeping people on the platform, if you're being really engaging, if you're creating meaningful interactions which is one of the big things that Facebook focuses on these days, cool we'll actually give you more reach then that will reward you but you can't rely on it like it's been so restricted. And it's happening now with Instagram, I'm seeing it with accounts, business accounts. Engagement is reducing and it's happening slowly but surely. Obviously Instagram is owned by Facebook. So it's one of those things where especially Instagram I see it people get so hung up on the follower number because it's sitting at the top of your accounts and you're like gotta see it go up and obviously it feels good when it goes up and it is a reflection if they're the right followers of the people that are interested in you but - you need to have a way., it's just the only smart way to do it these days for getting people off those two platforms even if not all emails end up in people's inboxes. Even if XYZ you've actually got something that you own and you can directly contact those people.

Anna Jonak: [00:23:38] Totally. I think it's a huge thing for people to recognise that these platforms are so important. But then yes you need to have them directed somewhere to take those next steps to learn a bit more. And I mean I've got it. Yes so many of us rely on social. I mean social is such a great way to engage and a lot of, I mean especially our audience are on there regularly. So you want to be able to be in front of them. I mean yeah we see everybody getting caught up on their numbers and what it means and everything else. But that's another thing it's about quality as well not just quantity because so many people on there that just don't engage or aren't interested but you want the right people that you know they are going to make the right decision at the right time.

Stevie Dillon: [00:24:17] Yes that's extremely important. So what you will find, there's this kind of thing where it's like I just want more followers at any cost and I think the test should always be, are the people that you're attracting potentially one day going to do business with you? Because they will be the people that will be interested in the content that you're putting out if so. If not, like if you're kind of just going into Facebook threads and dropping your link on those follow threads and you know basically chasing followers at any cost, what will happen is that those people will connect with your account potentially because they wanted you to connect with theirs or whatever it is. And they'll never engage with your content. And that is like the beginning of the downward spiral because what will happen is you'll post a great piece of content that your ideal client would absolutely love. But you've got people that are connected to your Facebook or your Instagram that aren't your ideal clients. They won't connect with it. So your engagement will go down which means that your future post won't be seen by as many people which means your engagement goes down and it's just like this spiral and I see it so often.



Anna Jonak: [00:25:20] Well that's a great tip for people to be aware of. Like don't get caught up in your numbers. Get caught up in the quality or in the quality and the engagement you're having so if you're currently having good engagement then look at it that way.

Stevie Dillon: [00:25:32] Particularly important for a service based business as well, a product based business, more followers can potentially lead to more sales if they're the right people obviously. But if you're a service based business, smaller numbers are fine. They just need to be more engaged.

Anna Jonak: [00:25:45] Well you actually just took the words at my mouth. That's what I'm gonna say I was going to ask you [both laughing] about the difference between because obviously you talk about the fact that on your website that you predominately work for service based businesses although you obviously you also do product based businesses, but your speciality is more service based businesses. And we were talking recently about the difference with what one needs to do as a product based business versus service based business. And I was really interested if you could share anything around what you see as the differences in tactics or strategies or trends that are happening so that people in either field have got a little bit of a gauge on how they're faring or what they could be doing better maybe.

Stevie Dillon: [00:26:23] Yeah for sure. So there's actually probably three types of businesses that's service based, product based, and then kind of bricks and mortar. And so what I mean by that is kind of like a cafe or a restaurant or that sort of thing. If you're a service based business what I would say in terms of the mix of your organic content is to have about 75 percent of your content that is really adding value. So you're answering all of the questions to your potential clients have about your service . You're providing valuable content for a step or two before they even know that they need you. So you don't want to be sort of having people come to you and connecting with you right when they need you. You want to be having somebody connected to you on Instagram or Facebook a year before. So you need to be strategic about the type of content that you're producing. Then you also need to have that connection content so getting people to relate to you. And so those two types of content are about 75 percent of your content and then 25 percent of the time you can promote. So you can you know promote your offers or you can promote your freebies or get people into your sales funnel. Never be really kind of salesy but you can promote your offers as long as it's of value. With a product based business, the split necessarily needs to be different. So if you're especially in e-commerce business generally about 75 percent of your content will be promotion content but there is like a massive BUT with that. Don't make it salesy and don't not sell the lifestyle which is a double negative. So make sure you're selling the lifestyle [Stevie laughs]. And so what I mean by that is say for example you are a watch company, don't just take a whole heap of different photos of your watches on a plain background and put it up on social and then wonder why you're not getting any traction. You actually need to think about and it goes back to brand which we're talking about before. What's your brand personality? Like if it's a watch company for females between 18 and 24 and you know that they just love travel and they love kind of getting out on adventures then take photos of the watches like you know people on their travels and take photos of the watches in a situation that people will connect with if that your ideal client. So 75 percent of the content needs to be promotional but it also needs to add value and then 25 percent for a product based business is that kind of value content and connection content. And then for a bricks and mortar business, it's really about kind of showcasing who you are so for example you're a cafe, it's really kind of like things that will make people you know feel really enticed to come in. So it's really kind of when people land on your account a lot of the time in the bricks and mortar business they're kind of checking you out on Facebook or Instagram before they come in. So you just want to create an awesome picture so people are like I'm coming in for that you know blueberry pie tomorrow whatever it is.

Anna Jonak: [00:29:07] My sister in law will like that. She runs a cafe in Mosman in Sydney and I've got to say she does a really good job on her Insta like she's always like putting up these tantalising images of like what she has food wise I'm like Oh my God yum. And then she mixes it in with the view because they actually have this cafe which overlooks the water and they've got this big green field it's beautiful. But yeah it's really interesting though to hear the difference between you know product is obviously more sell, but strategic, you know strategic and lifestyle and bringing in an element of aspiration or kind of like desire versus the service which you know is very much all about I guess you know you're giving value for, so people build up that trust with you the other way around.

Stevie Dillon: [00:29:47] It's a different.. People make buying decisions very differently when it comes to product and service. So with service, you're dealing with a person or you're dealing with you know it's much more personal elements. So generally the reason why it needs to be value content and connection content is the value content is answering the question of does this person know what they're on about? Are they somebody that will do the job for me really well? Are they qualified? Are they somebody that I can trust with whatever it is? And then the connection content is okay cool. I've whittled that down. I know that they know what they're talking about. I've got three people that know what they're talking about. It's kind of like who do I like more? Who will I relate to more? Who I wanted to do business with? [Anna says who's for me? who gets me?] Yeah who gets me? And so both are so important.

Anna Jonak: [00:30:34] I'm gonna... I'll talk to Flori about that one. I'm sure she's all over it. Oh my God. Great tips. I think that anyone listening is gonna have lots and lots of key takeaways from here. And one last thing I'd really like to ask you about is... whether you think that people need to pay for traffic now because you’ve talked about organic traffic and a lot of people especially early days are small business and not investing. You know they don't want to heavily invest in ads or things like that. Do you think that a business can be successful in its own right just trusting on organic traffic or there needs to be an element of paid traffic in there as well?

Stevie Dillon: [00:31:11] I think it's a lot more difficult these days for the organic traffic. I think it's completely possible and I've seen obviously examples of businesses that are doing it. If you want to supercharge your efforts, you need to be driving traffic proactively somehow. So you can be posting on your own social media accounts all day every day and it's like sitting on your couch hoping that Mr. Right will come and knock on the door you know what I mean. You need to be driving traffic. One of the best ways to do that if you have everything already set up so you already have a sales funnel. You already have great content. You already have a killer brand. Ads are an amazing way to go and I think the reason why so many small businesses second guess themselves is obviously it's a paid thing. So obviously the risk of losing the money but you would have more confidence in doing that if you knew that what you had was completely on lock. So paid traffic is obviously amazing but there are other ways to go about it. So influencers, collaborations, competitions if they run well. Any other kind of traffic driver will also work. But paid ads is one of the best ways to do it if you've got everything else sorted.




Anna Jonak: [00:32:24] Well we've certainly found that I mean obviously with our lack of social strategy up until now that we've had you know I mean for the most part we've only run campaigns really across key periods of the year when we've had big intake.So we've done big on and off periods and then the rest has been organic in between. But we're certainly at a point now where I guess our feedback and feeling based on the last year is actually to have an always on strategy on both. So you're obviously doing what you do organically but actually constantly having paid traffic going so constantly be promoting some kind of value or content or freebie or something so that you're kind of having the double angle on. Well I mean we're obviously in a position when we can afford to do that now.

Stevie Dillon: [00:33:06] Yeah. So the way that I would approach paid traffic if you're going to have an always on strategy is always to have one warm ad running and cycle these out every couple of weeks. So when I say one, sorry one cold ad and one warm ad. So a cold ad is basically a really valuable piece of content that has a freebie attached to it going out to audiences that are your ideal client but I've never heard of you before. So they're cold traffic. So basically you're kind of warming them up and you can do that. Video works really well for this. So you could do short videos that are supported with paid ads to general interest audiences. So for you guys you know you might target other big business coaches, fans of them and then have that running to build up your warm audiences and then have a cold, sorry have a warm traffic audience so always be remarketing. So anyone that's had any sort of interaction with you through that warm ad, sorry through that cold ad I'm confusing myself, make sure that you're remarketing to them with ads to basically sell your services or your product.

Anna Jonak: [00:34:13] Okay well we definitely do, when we do our big challenges in business we've always been... we're always running a mix of cold and warm and then..,.

Stevie Dillon: [00:34:20] But then do that all the time. You could literally have that running all the time throughout the year to constantly build up your warm audiences.

Anna Jonak: [00:34:28] It's actually amazing watching and I guess this is where the sales funnel comes in, watching the volume of touchpoint some people have before they make decisions. Like we've got people who've literally been following us for two years and have literally been to like five time in just 10 webinars and everything else. And then eventually one day they'll take the leap and I think that that's why yes, that's why what you're saying at the beginning is so personal and it's about kind of realising that that might not be ready for it right now but in time. And you know what, I've got to share this, because if she's listening there's this beautiful lady Sohret. She sent us a message yesterday. She sent us a voice message to one of our social networks might be Facebook just saying how she's been following us for the last year and like at the moment it's just not the right time for her. But like when it's you know when it is the right time she's totally in and everything we're delivering is so valuable. And it was just such a nice voice message to get from someone just to go Oh my God like you know someone's really enjoying what we're putting out and they know we're there and it's literally just when that time is ready.

Stevie Dillon: [00:35:26] That's why I love... so that is why I love social media and I love content marketing so much because it really does do that. It makes you this business where rather than whenever you've got something to sell you're like blasting out with you know you're like paid ads and that obviously has its place. But what is so great about you know your podcast and your socials and all of the value that you provide is that you're having people come to you. You're having people want to work with you and when they're ready they will do it. I just think that's amazing.

Anna Jonak: [00:35:56] Yes. Well you're going to have the opportunity to reach so many more people. I'm really keen for you to share a bit more about what's happening for you and where people can come and find you because as massive advocate and I think that anyone who wants to know a bit more should come and connect with you and I know that you've got an awesome opportunity happening in the next week or so which I'd love for you to share.

Stevie Dillon: [00:36:16] I do. I have a social media bootcamp coming up. So I'm running a free social media boot camp video training launching on the 25th of November. So if you're interested in that at

Anna Jonak: [00:36:32] Nice. Give us a little bit of an inside sneak peek of what people are going to get when they jump on board.

Stevie Dillon: [00:36:37] So I'll basically be going through. So my rant is obviously the fact that people are focusing too much on the tactic. So it's going through the eight step process that I run through with clients that I haven't actually released before that goes through brand, social media and content, a sales funnel and traffic and how to maximise all of those so that when you do get to things like hashtags they'll actually work.

Anna Jonak: [00:37:01] Nice. You get those foundations in first [Stevie agrees]. Perfect. Well I would love any of our listeners to come go jump on board. There'll be tons of value knowing what this lady is all about and the brain that you have just talking to over the last few days I'm like there's so much in there. Well this is what happens when you spend like three hours writing your ten thousand word blog posts or whatever it is, isn't it? [Stevie laughs]

Stevie Dillon: [00:37:24] Totally. See that did come in handy.

Anna Jonak: [00:37:27] Eventually, it paid off. Wow awesome stuff. I really encourage everyone to go check it out and look I think we'll wrap things up now and as we do I would love you to share a little parting thought for our listeners, something to take home that they can implement or an attitude to approach perhaps when it comes to tackling their socials.

Stevie Dillon: [00:37:47] Definitely an attitude. So what I would say is that there are so many different strategies, so many different tactics, so many different things out there. If there's one thing that you took from this today or if there's one strategy that you ever come across just actually go home, implement it, test it out for 90 days and see how it goes. I think probably the biggest problem when it comes to social is that there's so many different ideas you've actually just got to implement them and see if they work for you.

Anna Jonak: [00:38:15] Testing. Absolutely. Test to measure and giving it a go in the first place.

Stevie Dillon: [00:38:20] Yeah just start. Just do it.

Anna Jonak: [00:38:22] Well also as you would know you have to have like a plethora of things in that box because some things just like they work for a while and then they stop working. You've got to try something else.

Stevie Dillon: [00:38:31] Yes you gotta keep on our toes. That's the thing with social, it's one of the most exciting and frustrating things about it.

Anna Jonak: [00:38:37] I think that that's why you love it though. You like the adrenaline ride of the ups and downs and the making it happen [Stevie agrees and laughs]. Oh my God. Alright ladies, look. Fantastic. Thank you so much Stevie and everyone else out there, go jump on Stevie's challenge and listen to her podcast. I would say a couple of times because there's lots of nuggets in here and other than that, have a cracking day and remember to be brave in your business.



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We're incredibly excited to be able to share our business insights via the Raising Her Game Podcast. We aim to provide you the very best content each week to help you elevate your business game so you can take your life and business to the next level. We'll tackle the topics that will get you increasing your productivity, mastering your mindset and strategising like a marketer. If you're enjoying the show, you can help spread the love and pay it forward by leaving a review. It will make it easier for other female entrepreneurs in business like you, to find us and kick their own goals.








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