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Ready to scale-up your productivity, master your mindset and strategise like a marketer?

Then read on for insights that will drive you to rise to the next level in your life and business.

Tune into this episode with Anna and Flori to learn about how 3 simple marketing tweaks can amplify your business results.

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  • Why you need to embrace the act of pivoting... always
  • How things will not go according to plan... and what you need to be prepared to do when this happens
  • How you need to test different hooks / copy and creative when it comes to your paid traffic campaigns
  • What you need to be conscious of with your landers... and 6 key tips on how to optimise them
  • How an optimised lander can hugely impact everything from your number of leads... to your number of conversions and overall profits






Anna Jonak [00:01:26] Hello and welcome to Episode 64 of the Raising Her Game Podcast. Flori and I, if you can tell by our attire if you're [Flori laughs] watching us from video, recording these podcasts back to back with the last podcast because there's a really good flow on from the lessons learned generally in our business through to those that we specifically have learnt with regards to our marketing and you're gonna see there's some really amazing content today where we gonna talk about how we've been learning and applying and tweaking and pivoting in our business and our marketing to basically get results and definitely wanted to share that with you today. So, we are back together again or just still together depending on [Flori laughs] how you are listening to this. We're pretty excited today to hang out. I was just saying that we are so ad hoc at the moment when we get together with because of the crazy. But, it's pretty nice to hang out.

Flori Pyke [00:02:22] Oh, it's totally pretty nice to hang out. Can I just say though, conversely to normal attire I don't have a green vest on but I do have green on today [both laugh].

Anna Jonak [00:02:31] I purposely didn't wear my green vest today. Thanks very much. I was like you know what, since Flori started putting pictures of me in a nurturing email sequence in a green vest and poking fun at me, I've decided to make a stand and I put on a grey jumper. How about that?

Flori Pyke [00:02:51] Yeah. You're really switching it up. I have to say I am surprised because today is a balmy 10 degrees and I'm highly surprised that you don't have the green vest on.

Anna Jonak [00:03:03] I did have a blue one. But then I'm like I can’t because there's going to be a comment, I've been a blue vest. I'm just going to go with a grey jumper and let's just see how we go. So, yeah that's out of the way. That's out of the way. Where are we going today? What's happening?

Flori Pyke [00:03:20] Yeah. What are we talking about? OK. So, we're going to talk about how three simple marketing tweaks can amplify your results. So, in the last episode, if you tuned in you would have heard us talk about five big lessons learned along the way and we alluded a lot to the last couple months and what we've been doing. And, as part of that we've had to apply some marketing tweaks because you know what, things haven't always gone to plan and they won't. If you're listening and you're early on in the journey, things won't always go to plan. So, there's a few things we wanted to cover off today with respect to your marketing and different tweaks that you can make that will really magnify your results. So, let's just start. So, the first one I want to take you through is about the importance of pivoting. OK. And, this comes so much to your marketing as well as just like generally speaking with your business and overall strategy. So, if you're listening and you're like "What is she talking about with pivoting?" Well, this is just the whole approach that when things go wrong because they will, you've got to be prepared to change tack, right? Because, if you... and this goes back to the episode we released last week where Anna you made this statement that you know "if you keep doing what you're doing, you're going to keep getting the same results" right? So, you need to be prepared to change tack and to pivot. So, I want to kind of draw this out through an example for you. And, so that this can give you a bit of a story around how these things really can influence and impact your result. So, a few weeks ago we created and set up a quiz funnel and can I just say like it took a lot of time on everyone's part. It was a bit of a beast to get set up. And we got it up. We got the emails. Everyone did their role. The funnel was up. It was tested. It was ready to go. And it was time to turn the Facebook ads on. OK. So, we agreed on the copy, the creative, and off we went set the ads live. And, it was like f***ing crickets and excuse my French [Anna laughs] but I just remember getting really frustrated because having done this now for a while like I have a pretty good gauge on like well I'll just tweak this and I'll tweak that and we'll try this and we'll try that. Nothing was working. And, it was really frustrating because we really needed to list build basically you know and this is part of our strategy as well to be more future focused in our vision which we talked about in last week's episode which if you haven't tuned in, go listen to it because we talk about that a lot.

Anna Jonak [00:06:00] It's also a really good funnel, I just have to say. It's also a really well-thought-out funnel [Flori agrees] like with multiple different scenarios. It actually gives you good insights. Like I'm proud of the funnel.

Flori Pyke [00:06:12] Yeah. I think it is a great funnel but unfortunately and I think that we will get it right. Like I think ultimately we need you know as we've discussed, we probably need to change the hook in terms of like the actual quiz itself and just make a few tweaks which won't take a huge amount of time but we just didn't have more time to be quite frank to keep trying and testing different things. Because at that point we had spent about a week trying and testing different things and it just wasn't working and we needed to list build. So, we did a bit of reflection and it was like all right. What other lead magnet do we have that we can switch on in which way we can still list build and, we know that'll work. So, we turned on our Small Business Blueprint funnel and it worked a treat. So then, we pivoted and what did we do, we plugged that funnel into the quiz funnel. So, people downloaded the blueprint and that was all well and good but before they get the blueprint, they are directed to our quiz and they still get the blueprint and everything but it's just an added value piece to the prospect and it's working well. So, bit of an insight there, a bit of a story I suppose on how you need to be prepared to pivot because in the end we're still getting the results that we want. We're still list building really well with a great cost per lead and in due course, we'll change the hook for the quiz. But, given the time constraints we had we're happy with the outcome based on how we pivoted.

Anna Jonak [00:07:40] Totally. And, can I just say whenever I hear the word pivot and I ask Jo or Rose when we do the podcast recording to please find this kind of like kind of video of like Ross from Friends saying "pivot!". It's just a thing in my mind whenever I hear that word and it just cracks me up. So, I feel like we need to have this implemented into these podcast play so that other people can lean in but I think...



Flori Pyke [00:08:04] Maybe we should. Sorry. Maybe we should have that like as a bit of a meme for the email that goes up. I'll make a note.

Anna Jonak [00:08:10] Oh yeah. Oh my God that will make me so happy when I see it. [both laugh] I think it's crucial. We joke with Jo because Jo, she's always like what are you doing now? What's changing? Especially when we change funnels or we do tweaks and all those bits and pieces you know. It can mean like an onward flow of changing email copy and changing this and changing that like a pivot isn't always just a quick switch easy thing. [Flori agrees] It can actually be something, sometimes that has lots of repercussions. However, the whole point is as I was saying at the end of the last episode is it's just about you finding a way forward. It's about looking for another way to get the result out and trusting that the answers are there. And, I think that another small tweak that we did to one of our campaigns or a pivot that we made when we were running our audit funnel was that we changed the questions in the questionnaire for the audit funnel from something like 10 to 20 because we found that the quality of the leads we were coming through were people who because it was quite quick and easy to fill out, we were getting a lot of people who weren't particularly invested in kind of the level that we wanted and weren't coming to the conversations to have the conversations that we wanted to have them by the business. When we changed the questionnaire just by adding in some extra questions and kind of really thinking about the kind of questions to ask to kind of, I guess really qualify our leads had a massive impact on the kind of quality and the conversations that we had moving forward. And whilst yes, our cost per lead went up as one would expect because it wasn't so easy. It wasn't something quick and easy people could do any more. They had to put some skin in the game. It made our funnel work even better for us to have the quality of conversations that we've been able to have and recruit for our program but also give really high quality valuable advice that we know the people we're talking to are gonna go and apply to our business.

Flori Pyke [00:09:57] Yeah. I totally agree. I mean and that's just a simple tweak, right? Just changing up the questions and the number of questions. And it was like wow all of a sudden you know what, that made a huge impact on that funnel. So, I mean it goes back to how a simple thing can totally amplify your results and get you way better results in the end. So, I think that's a great example. Anna, on the subject of like tweaks and pivoting when it comes, like do you have kind of any insights come, putting on your personal coaching, your mindset expertise hat, the going will get tough, right? And, we've talked about that a lot. But do you have any kind of insights here for our listeners when it comes to like how do you broach things like when things get tough? Because I think we all have the innate behaviour to sometimes just say you know what, it's just too hard. Like oh you know I'm going to throw the towel in or this is just you know sometimes it feels [Anna says "It's not working."] Yeah. Do you have any tips here?

Anna Jonak [00:10:59] I think it all comes, personally, it all comes down to focus. And, often what people do is they focus on what's not working and the problems and you know when you're looking at something like that, when your focus is there that's all you're gonna be able to see because your mind is like a filtering system and it just brings you what you're looking for. So, if you're looking for issues, you're looking for problems, you're looking for things not working, it's just going to kind of expand. [Flori agrees] And, I think the trick is, literally to be hungry in the opposite way to find the solution. So, when something goes wrong rather than, yeah you can have your moment of being deflated, but then it becomes this kind of like Terminator taskedfocus of finding the bloody answer. Like the answer is there for the taking, the lesson's there somewhere. So, like let's frigging figure it out it. Like you kind of have to get excited by the hunt to get it right, I think. And, it's so rewarding then when you make some tweaks from your questionnaire and all of a sudden, you're getting the results or you know you turn something on and plug something in and all of a sudden you know your cost per lead is exactly where you want it to be. It just goes to show that the answer is always going to be there. You just have to focus on finding it. And that's where your mind will then work for you and with you to help you find the results, to help you find the answers because you're focused on them. So, it's all about being Terminator. I'm going to get my guy. I'm going to go. I'm sure I've made this joke before but Flori made me take out my pictures of Terminator and one of our presentations... [laughs] because it wasn't on brand but it's so on brand for me. Because it's the Terminator. I go into Terminator mode when like s**t hits the fan. It is like well how are we going to, what's the answer. Let's find the answer. Let's try this. Let's try that. And, like it frigging works.

Flori Pyke [00:12:40] No, it does. But I think it's also like this stuff that change that shift in mindset doesn't happen overnight. I think you have to practice it and then you start to just own it and apply that approach every time. Because I certainly know like when we first started out, I was like oh far out this is so hard. I don't want to do it anymore. No, I'm just kidding. But I certainly did not have that Terminator mentality and I'll definitely give you you're far more Terminator than me. But you know I have changed my mindset. OK. We need to find them answer and you know if we hit a roadblock, OK well what's the other way? What's the other path we're gonna take? And, it takes sometimes I think practicing that approach but over time it just becomes a bit of an innate behaviour, doesn't it?

Anna Jonak [00:13:26] Definitely. I think that I'm kind of definitely programmed now to like win. Like whilst there's failure, failure is part of the process. And, I totally respect that. Then we'll always get where we want to go. And, I think that that's a mindset thing, there's no other alternative. We're always going to make this work. We're always going to get where we want to go. [Flori agrees] It doesn't matter if we go to take the long road, the hard road, the bumpy road, the whatever road, we’ll fight our way through if we have to. And, I think that it's that grit, determination, resilience [Flori agrees] which kind of really fits in. And, I think that yeah you do need to practice it and you need to try it on and you need to be OK with being uncomfortable and the uncertainty and being able to sit in it. It's uncomfortable and horrible as it is to get to the other side. But trust, it's always trusting that you will get to other side and that's what'll drive you through.

Flori Pyke [00:14:09] Love it. OK. Awesome. All right. So, let's move on to number two when we're talking marketing tweak. So, on the subject of pivoting and I mentioned this when we were talking about pivoting. I want to just share a bit around the importance of testing different hooks, different copy and different creative when it comes to your ads and your funnels and in particular, your ads and your lander. So, let's start with hooks. And, I think it's important to caveat for anyone listening. What I mean by a hook is literally like a few short words that you're going to use to really draw your lead or your prospect in. OK. And, I think the thing that as you're listening, I want you to really think about is that save your avatar down pat because that's a challenge in itself but you really need to understand that avatar's pain points and what keeps him up at night. OK. But as part of that, what you're probably going to discover is that whilst you have kind of an avatar who fits a certain profile, they might have slightly different pain points. And to that end, you need to be conscious of perhaps testing a few slightly different hooks with your ad copy, with your lander, with whatever it is that you're putting up together you know, creating for your sales funnel. So, for example in our case, I just drafted up some ad copy for a masterclass that we're going to... We told you a little bit about it in last episode and we'll share again at the end of this episode where you can learn more about it but there's different hooks you know that we need to test for that ad copy. So, what I mean by that. I'll give you a couple examples. So, this masterclass in particular is really tailored for those of you who are starting out. OK. So, one hook that might work really well and I don't know I've got to test this right is "Are you ready to take your side hustle from hobby into the fast lane but you're not quite sure how?" That might be one or what about "Got tons of business ideas but you're not sure which way to go or what to do next." So that's what I mean by different hooks. You can't know part and parcel which of those is going to work best. You need to test this stuff. OK. And, on that note I think it's also really important to caveat the importance of testing copy. OK. So, for instance, when it comes to your ad copy, you've got to be prepared to test different lengths and how that sits with your audience. OK. Because your audience might react more positively to short ad copy versus long ad copy the same way as your ad copy telling a story or is it just really like kind of benefit and features driven and what resonates with your audience. And, if you don't test you won't know, right? Finally, I just want to talk about your imagery. Obviously, you've got a test that. It is really interesting actually recently; we ran a few ads and like one of the ads we had professionally done up and trust me it looked a lot prettier than the ad I created in Canva. But you know what was fascinating? The one I created in Canva did way better. Right? And, I think it's that whole element of gold nugget out of that for me was we have this just like innate behaviour that when we see something that looks like an ad like the red flag, the brakes just go on. It's like [siren sound] it's an ad, whereas what I created in Canva it just looked way more native. And, I think that's part of why it performed a lot better. So just like little things you know, little tweaks that can make all the difference. OK. So, on that note, Anna do you want to talk about number three, landers? Because I alluded to that a bit.

Anna Jonak [00:17:41] I will do, just before that though I just want to say I think the thing with the hooks is like whilst you're talking about it from the perspective of testing copy and visuals, I think you know it works in every front. And, I think this alludes back to something we've spoken about before where even the activation or the webinar title or the topic as a hook can have a massive impact on the audience you bring and its relevance to your programs. And, we've talked about the fact that before when we had hook that was all focused on marketing that we found that we drew the wrong audience because we found that people were you know they were looking for the hashtags, they were looking for Facebook, they were looking for social media whereas what we teach and certainly the people that we work with, it's more about kind of addressing the fundamentals first. Because you know the social sort of stuff comes at a later phase and quite often the foundations kind of get left behind and that's problematic. But, certainly for us doing research and learning and testing and being in this space and testing different hooks when it came to content has had a massive impact for us to know what to output when it comes to building out funnels and things that are going to appeal to people so that we can grow our business in the right direction and attract the right target audience. And, from there, so then in number three we're talking about landers. So, this is obviously I guess when you're thinking about the page that you're sending people to quite often off the back of an ad campaign. And, basically, you really need to get your landers optimised so they're working right so that when people land on them, they're not going to want to leave. Because it can make a big difference when you have like I think a good conversion rate is one you want to aim towards is around 50 percent. Is that right? [Flori agrees]. So, if you want to aim for a 50 percent sign up rate for something you're doing, look at think of the difference between a thousand people coming at a 50 percent conversion rate to a thousand people coming at a 20 percent conversion rate because you don't have an optimised lander like you're just missing out on leads, right? Because you're kind of paying for them and leave. [Flori says "Yeah. That's the difference of 300 people."] Yeah. It's huge. And, if you think about obviously drilling down to conversion rates of those 300 people into your programs that you've lost because you haven't got an effective lander. But I mean even those that aren't coming off the back of an ad it still bemuses how many people are not optimising their stuff for mobile? Like how many people are that you know they do everything around desktop. And their desktop looks awesome, but, when you look at their mobile, it just it's not pretty. It's not working. And, I think that it's really important though whether you're running campaigns and you're driving traffic somewhere or even if you're popping your links up to your website that you want to put your best foot forward on all fronts and across all platforms and make sure that it looks schmick across all. But when it comes to optimising an actual lander for an ad campaign, do you want to talk them through the key, I guess obviously some key things when it comes to like placement of certain things to…

Flori Pyke [00:20:35] Yeah definitely. I think that's right. We want you to walk away with some serious and kind of like tangible things that you can apply and reflect on on your landers and just kind of make sure that you've got this stuff down pat because this will impact much like Anna said not only the conversion rate of the lander but then it has a trickle effect on everything, the revenue, the conversion rate, whatever it is that you're doing etc. So, you really need to make sure the stuff is down pat so few little things you want to ensure that the placement of your optin box where you know where you collect the lead’s name and email address is above the fold, right? So that part of the screen that you can see be it on your mobile or on your desktop before you scroll down the page. OK. A second thing is like Anna said right, just honestly tick off that the site's optimised for mobile because I would hazard a guess that all of you who are listening right now, the majority of your traffic will be coming from mobile OK. Other simple things. Your call to action right, needs to be above the fold so before I scroll down that needs to be visible and use a punchy colour that really pops, right? You almost want to create like this innate behaviour that when I see that colour I know that I need to be taking action, that you're indoctrinating me right there. And, it's visible like this is where I click to take action. OK. Another thing is the menu bar. I see this done all the time. It's a lot of work to get people onto your lander. You've paid for them via an ad often and then you've got them there. Do not make it easy for them to leave. So, if you put your menu bar, you put your social icons at the top, you're doing yourself a complete disservice. They're on there. Keep them in there. So, think about optimising the page and by that exactly, get rid of your menu bar and really squeeze them in and that's where the whole terminology of a squeeze page comes in. Just squeeze out their name and email address and make the only clickable thing on that page, that call to action buttons so that they can take the next step. OK. One thing actually, can you talk about the copywriting I mean I think you've touched on that already but I think in this context like when you're doing a bit of a checklist and an audit on your lander it's so important right, Anna?

Anna Jonak [00:22:49] Oh totally. Well, also I think that the copy and the visuals is something that we always make sure that kind of follow through from the Facebook ad. It's to make sure that everything's consistent, that you're talking and you know that your copy is going to... Like I was saying this to you before, the copy of the Facebook ad to then what's in the lander to then what you deliver in a masterclass to then what you deliver in a challenge, all the way through to the actual program that you deliver, there needs to be a consistency and flow in the messaging so that people are really clear and what they're getting and that we're talking to the right people and that it resonates with them and they're clear on the transformational lessons that they will learn. I think that that's incredibly important to follow through on all of those pieces of the puzzle and as we said the right copy can draw in the right audience or it can draw in the wrong audience. So, definitely key as you said we test it a lot. There's a lot of stuff that we test and I think that over time I mean we've definitely got a bit of a format to our optin page and we're going to send you to it, you can go check it out because we'll send you to go and check out one of our masterclasses now. And for us, we kind of hit tick all the kind of boxes with all the best practice and we get really good conversion rates on it. [Flori agrees] But, over time we definitely practiced and tried a few. And, I remember when we worked with a coach in the States how ugly they were. Do you remember?

Flori Pyke [00:24:03] Well they were very like... I know. But this was a problem is they were very American and the audience, it goes back to the audience, right? Like the audience in the US, they digest content and copy very differently to the audience for instance in Australia or the U.K. even. It's almost like they don't mind being sold to. They're comfortable with it.

Anna Jonak [00:24:30] They're open to it. They're completely open to it. Whereas, yeah, there's definitely a difference between the Australian and the U.K. even. It's really interesting. It's really interesting how. But, it's a lesson for us to learn as well in terms of our communication generally when it comes to phone calls or conversations or emails and all these things [Flori agrees] as well as what we're outputting on copy. Oh totally, so many things to learn. But, hey you don't learn them overnight. Again, and this is where it comes to tweaking and pivoting. You've kind of got to try things on and open to take the lessons from each activation or each thing that you do. Get feedback when you can. Ask for help. And, certainly something I was talking someone about yesterday, one of our masterminder is also like try and learn why people aren't buying or aren't opting in. [Flori says "yeah of their objections, right?"] Yeah. Well because there's a lesson in there somewhere. Either you're not selling something right, they don't like what you're putting down or your messaging is off point or you know they're just not the right audience. And, I think a lot of people get caught up in things not working and that whole rejection angle. It's not about being rejected. It's just about like again the lesson, what can you learn from that? You're not doing something right or... So, let's get the Terminator on. [Flori agrees] Find out what that is, pivot and keep on keeping.

Flori Pyke [00:25:43] Totally. I think, too, I just want to kind of build on that whole concept of objections. You know I think all too often, people get caught up on rejection or an objection being someone kind of turning you down and they really take that to heart. But when you can shift your mindset to exactly learn from that. But also, I mean you know you and I have seen this a lot like you know we're having conversations with prospects at any given point in time and often if they take the time to voice a concern, an objection about our program and what we do. They're taking the time because they want to know more. Like often time, we can address that objection and turn them around. So, when you can flick and switch your mindset around to see that truth and start to see those as opportunities for you to address and then provide the solution to their problem then like happy days. It's just about that switch in mindset.

Anna Jonak [00:26:50] Yeah. If they're asking questions or they're coming back, they're conversing, they're interested. [Flori agrees] And, that's the right thing. So, you kind of lean in and run with that. So, lots to take on board from being prepared to pivot to testing different hooks whether it's copy, creative or even in your activations through to obviously making sure that your lander is optimised on all fronts. And, I think the biggest lesson here is just lean in for the lessons which really kind of reverberates from what we talked about last time. And, hopefully that you guys will start to become more comfortable with looking for those lessons because they are golden.

Flori Pyke [00:27:23] Yeah totally. All right. Love it. So, speaking of lessons, do you want to share a little bit about the lesson that we've got coming up in our masterclass?

Anna Jonak [00:27:32] Yes very excited about this masterclass. As we spoke about last week, we are running a webinar "The Five Secrets to Starting a Successful Business" and we're going to be dishing lots of gold about our journey, about what works, what doesn't work. Again, lessons and really important insights for you guys to be applying to your business to ensure that you really are going to get your business firing to take your business where you want it to go. So, if you're ready to kind of do the work and to slow down and look at building those foundations the right way as Flori alludes often to building a house, to laying down the foundations so that you can build up the house and you can do all the fancy painting and the marketing from the right place afterwards then come and join us at the Kickstarter Masterclass. We're running

Flori Pyke [00:28:25] Love it. All right. Fantastic. And we can't wait to see you there because it's going to be great. And, as you know I mean I mentioned this in last week's episode but we're going to be there live and expecting you to play all in and to bring it all because we are in it.

Anna Jonak [00:28:43] Bring your A game. That's right. There's definitely some exciting things that are going to be delivered live on the class and at the end.

Flori Pyke [00:28:50] Yes, just saying. Anyway. All right. So, for the parting thought "if you do not change direction you may end up where you are heading." by Lao Tzu. So, really talking to the importance of pivoting and being prepared to change tack when things don't go to plan. So, there we have it.

Anna Jonak [00:29:09] Don't fly into that wall. Get out the way. [Flori laughs] Change direction, girlfriend. All right. That's it. That's a wrap. And as always, remember, elevate your business game.



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