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Anna coaches Academy student Shelly - through pricing, positioning & branding in the lead up to the launch of Shelly’s new product range for Pretty Neat Kids.


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  • What it actually takes to create & manufacture your own products 
  • Why you need to focus on your points of difference when it comes to your pricing
  • The difference between markups and margins when pricing your products 
  • Why you need to set yourself goals / targets when it comes to your sales 
  • The importance of taking stock of your achievements to date 




So you know when you're "nesting" before baby comes along and want everything ready!? I remember feeling frustrated because I couldn't find storage solutions that matched and/or came in different sizes to hold things like baby's changing essentials, books, fluffy toys etc...

So my aim is to provide mums/kids with a variety of storage sizes, accompanied with fun decals and picture labels that can be used to "theme" their boxes and rooms, making packing away for kids fun and manageable, freeing up more time for mums to do everything else that needs to be done! So that's how Pretty Neat Kids came about.




Anna Jonak: [00:00:50] Welcome to Episode 45 of the Raising Her Game Podcast. Anna Jonak driving the podcast bus today as I run a live coaching session with one of our very lovely students, Shelly. Now, you're gonna see Shelly's been on a labour of love over the last twelve months, to create a very special set of storage boxes. She is a self-confessed organisation nut and after being very frustrated when she couldn't find the playroom storage that she wanted, she decided to go and create her very own range. Imagine beautiful wooden boxes varying sizes, choice of colours, themed decals you name it. Well that's just a snippet of what's being created and it's all super exciting. But as we connect today, Shelly is at the point where she's done all of the product development, and she's getting things ready to launch to the world. But she's certainly at a point where she's feeling quite uncertain and out of control in the process. And it's my job on the call today to give her the clarity and direction she needs to keep on keeping to actually see things through and to see this launch happen. Now be warned this episode is fast and furious as Shelly and I talk everything from pricing, positioning, owning what you're creating, and how to get reinvigorated when you're feeling in a slump and feeling a little bit lost. All right, I trust you enjoy this episode. Basically, I know why I wanted to pull you onto this call, because I feel like we needed to nut some stuff out, but I guess it would be really good from your perspective for you to tell me where you feel that you're at right now, and what would be most beneficial for you to get some help on so that you can progress?

Shelly Smith: [00:02:16] Everything just feels like it's just taking forever. I feel like there's so many pieces of my puzzle that I've got to put together, that I'm relying on so many other people to help me get it going. And, so everything is going but nothing is happening. You know what I mean? I've got nothing to show for what I'm doing. And, everyone keeps asking me so how are things going and I can't answer that, because this is everything, I'm doing but I can't show you what I've got. Just waiting for everything to take place. So, the very next step now is I've contacted Jasmine as well. She seems lovely and she's waiting for me to get back to her to say, uhm, right, when we can have photographs taken? So, she's all okay for that stuff, take your time, because once I get the photographs taken, I can get on a website and then I can start like social media which is another whole that just makes me ill. [Anna laughs] But I can't get them on my website, until I get the pricing right. This is where I'm now stuck, because I'm trying to cater for the needs of the customer and to solve the problems. But now I'm getting stuck because I don’t know where to price these products at.

Anna Jonak: [00:03:21] Okay. So, first of all I think we need to slow down and go hang on a second as much as I know that you've been doing this for a while, the fact is it has been a process because you have been looking at creating something from scratch. It's not that you are and every single student that's come through our program, like there's a few of them have been manufacturing things whether it's overseas or designing something, and the process takes a long time. And that's because you are going for something unique. You're not just you know having something off the shelf, you're creating something bespoke and the beauty is you know you're doing it around someone's wants and needs, and you're looking at meeting a demand and certainly you've done the research. I love the fact that you're talking your unique selling point, your competitors, your points of difference, like you're talking the language that you need to talk in order to be successful and I think that you need to come back and go over the last twelve months you've done a lot of due diligence, you've done a lot of research, you've done a lot of deciding how you're going to differentiate yourself and you know actually you've done an incredible amount of work, and whilst right now, yes you're at this kind of pinnacle point of getting your product up on the website, and getting it photographed and getting out there which is obviously scary. I appreciate that and it's kind of a combination of exhaustion I guess at this point, and I've actually spoken to, seriously, a couple of students recently about the same thing. They're getting to point that they've done so much work to get to this point, and then they're about to launch and they're like, oh man! You know like, sod this, it's too hard now I'm so tired to get to this point. And you know, because you also know that on the other side, that once you kind of like have your product launch you then you gotta market it, and there's you know the onion, the layers of the onion unfold. But the point is right now your specific issue is around pricing of the boxes and that's because ultimately, the quality of what you're creating supersedes plastic, as you said you want it to be reusable. When we've looked at competitor analysis pricing, most people are pricing higher than you want to price, and I think that's something that we spoke about in our coaching forum was really coming back that positioning, and how you wanted to position yourself whether you really wanted to be something for everybody, that everybody could buy, and quite low priced or you wanted to position yourself more as something that was a higher quality piece that was going to last, you’ve done a lot of work to make sure your boxes are you know really good quality. So, and the fact that you are enabling them to be you know they're bespoke you know. They're unique. Each person can kind of like I guess create something for themselves. It is beyond just a standard buying box so we can price it like that. You're also looking at the point at the moment where overseas obviously buying volume overseas is great, because you're going to get much lower cost per box, but as your husband rightly said and I think this is really important is that right now you just need to test. And I think it's not about getting it perfect. It's about looking at a price that you're confident with a price margin that works for you. And actually, working back and going, how much would I be happy to sell to start with? So, would I be happy to sell you know a thousand dollars’ worth of products a month? How many boxes is that? And roughly what are my margins looking like at that? So, can we even just start with those basic numbers like if you wanted to do a thousand dollars a month looking at, I know you've got a few different box sizes., let's just start looking at, because the big box you have is quite unique, and there's not many boxes of that nature in that size, is that right?

Shelly Smith: [00:06:27] Well we looked at the bigger businesses here like Hip Kids and what's the other Mocka I think some of the bigger businesses, they might have bigger ones but I don't think they’ve got them with wheels I think they've got the hinged lid, so I’d have to look. It's a pretty big size, and what the bigger businesses will say free shipping if you spend over 350 dollars. That's a lot of money to spend on furniture. So, the big one is it's half a metre, more than half a metre, about 57 centimetres long. The problem is the shipping costs. It's just you know I've been on the phone to Sendle. I've been on the phone to one rural courier. I think. Sendle I originally thought I was going to go with, and then when I just double checked the shipping of my actual cardboard box, not my actual wooden box. The cardboard box is like two centimetres bigger, they won’t take it, it's too big, it's over a certain volume. So, I had to start from the beginning again finding the right shipping people. The shipping is just do my head in, because I've got a variety of sizes. Someone can choose what size they want. So, I need to have a variety of different size cardboard boxes that can go into. Mums might not want boxes; they might want decals for the walls. I need to have tube that the decals fit in, but the tube of a certain size costs a certain amount. And I just, I know there's a lot of abandoned carts because of shipping. If I go on and I go, Oh, my God, thirty dollars for shipping, I leave it.

Anna Jonak: [00:07:46] I appreciate that and I get that. And I know that we've done research and there's certainly lot of research out there that does talk about abandoned carts with shipping costs. However, we also need to look at the certain products that people I think there's an expectation to pay. For example, I bought my daughter a wooden stroller, because the plastic ones just break, right? So, I bought her wooden stroller for Christmas, and in fact the shipping cost nearly as much as a product. But you know what, I bought it anyway because I wanted to buy the quality product. And you know that quality product is still standing. My last plastic one that cost a third and probably was free shipping hasn't. So I think that you get to a point when yeah look if your product, ultimately if you're paying as much of your product to shipping there's a problem, but I think that equally this is an important thing to consider when you are working out your pricing is that when you start to take into account, if you're going to start swallowing shipping costs, and then people you know some people use as a lead magnet strategy for certain discount off all these things, you get to a point when you don't make any money on your product. And which case as a business you're just going to do a lot of energy for absolutely nothing. [Shelly agrees] So, whilst I think that you need to start with something that you feel comfortable with where you are looking, look at the moment you have to try it, and if you put your brand out there and you people you were charging people shipping costs, and you work out what that looks like for one box, and if it's you know if it's not a lot great. If it's a bigger box people are going to expect that they can have to pay shipping costs. You can't swallow shipping cost for a massive box, that is actually gonna be something that's going to sit in their house for as a piece of furniture for a long time. I mean, look at IKEA, even IKEA when you know they're sending stuff they're charging a couple of hundred dollars to have stuff delivered to you and people swallow that cost because they want their furniture. So, I think that there's probably a sense of your panicking around the fact that you're seeing an escalation in costs when people are going to be buying things but you have to look at what people are buying and you have to kind of you're going to have to try some of these things, because there is no point in you even bothering going into business if you're going to like under price yourself and make no money anyway. It's just not worth it. So, as I said a starting point for me would be to come back and go right what would I be happy making at a minimum just as a starting point as a goal I want to set myself, and if I look at five different box sizes I've got all how many I've gotten? how many could I sell? Like how many would I need to sell? Like one big box and three little boxes to make that amount of money. So, kind of break it down to kind of like a rough cost you going to make per box, and see how many you'd need to sell, and you know make that as a starting point so that you see how realistic it is to get to those points. I think the cost that you showed me originally in the forum were too low like you were pricing yourself too low, and you weren't going to make enough margin. So, you know ideally when you talk markup margin, you want a product that's going to give you a 50 percent margin, ideally plus. What have you got to with the pricing that you are playing around with in terms of margin, because I know that we've hopefully been playing around the spreadsheets a little bit?

Shelly Smith: [00:10:30] My Excel, it's not great. I’ll have to ask my husband to help me with that. [Anna laughs] I want to put things in. I was working around with it, but I haven’t bought stuff now. I initially was actually working on that 100 percent markup, because if I put all these boxes for like eleven dollars from wherever. I can definitely sell the small one for 25 at least. And I was like, oh that's like a hundred percent markup, but that's not gonna happen because my smallest one I have to pay twenty two dollars to have made, but then as I said I found two suppliers overseas, and there's one woman who's had a business for a number of years in the UK, she’s got beautiful stuff, and she sells this exact same size, and she paints different triangles on different areas, and it’s the equivalent to forty two dollars for one box. I would need to bring up the spreadsheet here.

Anna Jonak: [00:11:16] One thing I do want to say though about that markup and margin is like don't look at the markup percentage, because people get caught up in like the markup, and go alright it's a 100 percent markup that's great, but actually your profit margin on that might be really low still. So, the profit margin is actually going to show you how much money you're actually going to make per item as opposed to a fancy looking hundred percent or two hundred percent markup. So, I wouldn't be looking at markup costs. I would literally be looking at your margins to go, there's a 50 percent margin here. I think, my gut feeling is from what you've shared with me today is that you are under pricing the boxes. You need to have more confidence in the quality of what you're creating, and you need to price them appropriately that you not try and be everything to everyone and be something that everybody can buy. And you know it's a quality product. It's you know they're being handmade. They're being hand designed. They're unique to each person. People are going to pay for that. And, as you said you wanted to see you had a view on what you how you wanted to sell things originally in boxes, like in about bulk items of three but obviously that again that can increase costs in terms of you know if people can only buy them that way then that might be maybe they want to buy one or two. So, maybe you start out by you test a price, you get it out there you start building up in social media, and you see what's happening. You can get feedback from people at this stage, because you've only bought you know a handful of boxes, and you've got a handful you're testing. It's about getting the message out there, it's about getting feedback, it's about making the first few sales and seeing how that goes. But I don't you know you can also start with a slightly lower price point than is comfortable, to see that you're getting the sales, and then you can move your pricing up. Again, a pricing strategy isn't fixed, like you might go out to market with one price it doesn't mean you can't put it up or you can't put it down. At the moment you've got to test. And certainly, yes, we're a service-based business, but we have definitely done that across time. We've changed our product and service enormously over time, and have done the same with our pricing. And I think that you have to give yourself flexibility, that it's not about getting this perfect. It's about getting something out that you're comfortable enough with with your margin. You know that the product is great quality and then it's about demonstrating that in your copy, in your imagery, even if it's sending out a few boxes to influencers or to people to showcase it, to get that word of mouth out and you know the videos I think for you is going to be key some really good visual stuff for people to see the quality, to see what they can do, and maybe it's getting some little mini videos made of you know the work up of the boxes from this to this, how it could look you know you get to design it, and you really build out this bespoke journey around the user experience as opposed to it being, do you know what I mean? [Shelly agrees] Look, I feel like you can tell a story with what you have beyond you know because you are making them so bespoke, and you have gone to all these great lengths to have them designed, to create decals and colours, and all these things, like let's take the user on a journey so they know what they're paying for, as opposed to you know pick this, this and this and this and here’s a cheap box. It’s like we're going on a journey together we we're creating something special for your room, that can change with your child over time, and do the decals come off so that they can. [Shelly agrees] Ok. Beautiful!

Shelly Smith: [00:14:17] They're not permanent. That's the different thing. I just researched on vinyl and fabric decals, and the vinyl ones are permanent. They're going to damage the walls. I don't want anything permanent for mums, because mums can use them for more than one child, and you know they got a boy or a girl and so I don't want them, I don't want anything permanent. The only permanent thing that they can choose is a color on the corner of the large box. And, I wanted to add colour and pick up the colour of decals, and the themes in the room. But, that's really the only thing that's permanent, they don’t want that, they don’t have to have that as well. So, do you think I should speak to Jasmine about what you think we could do like a story. Do you think we could video something when she's taking photographs, I mean video something, whilst she’s here and I'm using her photography skills to…

Anna Jonak: [00:15:00] Well I'd say you do need to find out what Jasmine can do in that respect, but I kind of like my view is to kind of if you can almost, because I know that what you've done is you've started painting some of the boxes upright. You've kind of start to bring them to life. I'd almost want to see and I know that I mean I'm so not like that creative person, I'm very good with ideas but I'm not a creative myself. But there are definitely apps that you can use where you can kind of tell a bit of a storyboard, so it might be that you're putting a series of pictures together or it's you kind of going in and out and painting like you know you’ll video something, and then you paint it, and then you add the decal, and you fast forward it. So, you've kind of got a fast forward video to see what I mean. You might need to do some research into that, but I would imagine that you can either get someone to and some kind of app, or some kind of video done, and work up some content that showcases the design in the creation piece. I think you just need to build this into your story and this is coming back to, you have done so much research like why were you trying to create these points of difference? What is it you want for the consumer? And use all of these things to tell your story and to make your brand different and to you know to build it out. Does that make sense? [Shelly agrees] I don't want you to be literally disheartened by looking at costs and trying to be the cheapest out there, to just get your product out there. I think we need to be proud of the work that has gone in, and let that be reflected in the product and the price and everything else. I was just going to say people will value it if you value it, but you have to show the value. Does that make sense?

Shelly Smith: [00:16:23] Yes yes. And so, when I go back to my spreadsheet, so I must put the price of the goods in, and then I must put markup of 50 percent. Is that right?

Anna Jonak: [00:16:31] Not markup, margin. So basically, you'll see in the spreadsheet that there are two sections to the markup and margin. So, the top is the margin, and the bottom is the markup. So, what you'll do is if you put your COGS in so your cost of goods sold, and then you put in the product price you'll be able to see in that what the margin is, and what the markup is. [Shelly agrees] Focus on the margin. And look you may not get to a 50 percent margin. I'm just saying like it's always something to work towards. Just look at what the price is, look at what the competitors are doing, look at your USP and how you're differentiating yourself from what you are offering in terms of value, and start owning that and then start putting a price against it. Okay. All we can do from that is then maybe we can sense check that, once you've got some good photography, maybe once you've got some video, you can come back into our community, and we can go right. Let's have a look at this. What would you value, what would you value out what would you pay for it? Does this feel comfortable as a price? You also have to remember that you know everybody, most people are going to say one thing when they like when people survey, they do tend to underestimate what they've spent, and when they're presented with something that actually genuinely really want, you pay for it. Like I mean God who hasn't spent, I mean I know that I've spent like hundreds of dollars on bloody decals with my first child, [Shelly laughs] the others definitely didn't get that. But you know like there is definitely a point of no expense is spared for some of those first babies, right?

Shelly Smith: [00:17:47] So even if I'm working on a roughly 50 percent margin, must a factor in the cost of a box, the wrapping, and the box wrapping in that 50 percent or is that going then be a little bit on top of that?

Anna Jonak: [00:17:59] No, that's included in your COGS so your cost of goods sold so your actual product getting your product ready includes all of that. So, basically if your box cost ten dollars to make and then you've got to pay for the cardboard, and you've got to pay for the packaging and you've got to pay for that whatever that end cost is is what it's costing you to make, and to get ready to sell. Then you want your margin to be on top of that. Once you've got that finalised cost it's like then what your margin is. What’s the profit is that you make from that point on, and what you feel comfortable with. And again, that also comes back to you deciding what it is what works for you. Like is this business you know something where you want to end up making 50 grand a month, or to start with is 1000 or 2000 dollars a month what's comfortable. I think it's much easier to look at things with setting yourself some goals. So in that sheet you can see what your profit margin is and then you see there's other tabs in there where you can goal set and go if my margin is this, and I sell three of these, and I sell five of those, and I sell one of those, and I sell 10 decals well actually there's my thousand dollars you know. And then I take out maybe my ad spend I might put a bit of ad spend in there so you can see what your bottom line is, and I can definitely work through that spreadsheet with you when you get to that point, but I think at this point is more about you getting excited and owning what it is as opposed to being fearful of the kind of like...

Shelly Smith: [00:19:20] It just feels like such a chore. Like I'm just getting, I am getting there but I'm not. Do you know what I mean? That’s what it feels like to me and everything in my life is planned out. I don't do anything on the spur of the moment. Everything I know what's happening next week, I know what food we are eating next week, I know where we're going on holiday in two months’ time, and this is what is irritating is that this is the only thing in my life, that I feel like I don't have control of. I feel like I can't get it going. You know what I mean? And it's driving me actually insane because it is going but it's not the same time.

Anna Jonak: [00:19:51] Hashtag control freak over there. Yes. And of course. Look if you are used to being able to control every element of your life, but the reality is when you're in business as it is there is so much that is uncertain and you have to get comfortable with that. And, I honestly urge you as well as the same time as doing all this pricing when you've got five minutes is I literally would get you to list all the things that you've done over the last 12 months, because you have done a phenomenal amount of research into product development, costing, sourcing, understanding kind of like what goes on internationally when it comes to importing like your knowledge base like you can be coach on some of this stuff now, like as in seriously like that. But also, the fact that you are but you've been so diligent in creating a different product, and I think that that's what's exciting is it coming back to that as well. So, there's so much that's been achieved it's just because it's not maybe you haven't got the money that's come in yet. I don't want you to kind of discount all of that. So, I think it's very key for you to focus on that. But equally you are going to have to ride the wave of uncertainty now as we start testing because you're going to get these products done, you're gonna get some videos, you're going to launch your social, you know we're going to start working on some ads with you. We're going to start working on getting his name out there. Don't roll your eyes on me lady. [Shelly laughs] You are going to love it.

Shelly Smith: [00:21:02] I've never been on it. I've never been on it. Because I've just never liked it. I've just never... I've got other things to do, and then two years ago when we left Hong Kong my friends created an account for me. They were like come on you got to have a Facebook account, you got to keep in contact with us. I haven't posted one thing on there, I haven't written one thing on there and just the thought, it just it actually makes me, I wanna be ill. I was you know talking to Vikki the other day and the whole research on that, and what did you do to plan it all and how to use Canva, etc etc, and so I’ve done all the research but I haven't actually gotten the images to get it going. And I know I’ve just got to start it; I know I've just got to actually do it. It's just the thought of being out there and last week I had my little hiccup. I think it was the first time that I doubted myself on this whole journey, and I can hear your voice and I can hear all the mindset things you say. And you know I start comparing myself to competitors which you say don't do you know, so I had just rein myself in I could just hear your voice again, and say It's okay just pick yourself up and keep going. But yeah. Okay I'm going to work on this pricing now, and then I'll get Jasmine booked in for the next week two, because I've got everything now. I've got all the boxes. I've got all the decals, I’ve got everything. Just get some photographs going.

Anna Jonak: [00:22:21] I'll look into, I'll have a look. Let's put a question out into the community about video apps about creating some kind of time lapse video, about creation of the boxes I think would be good. And I do think that your next steps are definitely like let's get some good images, and start getting a little bit more internal feedback, and then just friggin we're gonna get up and get on with it. And that's it. You can't be perfect now okay? I know that you want to have control and have everything ready and everything perfect. It's not going to be perfect now it's just trial and error, and you kind of have to approach it with trial and error get it out there and then like fight to make it work. You know you kind of get in like social media, I don't love social media, like I don't use my Facebook at all. We use it for business. But the whole point is you know you're creating a product and you have to come back to the vision and mission of what you wanted to create, and why you and it's created. And this is about now giving that gift out there to people, and to getting people excited like I have. I'm moving to a new house so I want to see these images, because if there's something that fits, bring it on sister, I'm in and I've seen the love, the labour of love and if I get to choose, and I make it my own in my daughter's bedroom, like this like they've got this huge bedroom it'll be perfect. And so, seriously I think it is, I think we get excited now about where you at, and write that list of where you've come from. Draw a line and be right next steps. And I think we need to focus on getting your product up on your website, and then we need to work your marketing plan, and I think well that kind of part of the content is being released on next week with regards to working up marketing plans and I would urge you to go and jump into the forum with Flori and Caroline and start working up what that marketing plan looks like for yourself. So you can just start you know even if it is just starting with some social and then of build on top of that, what else we want to be doing on top of that, because obviously social is just going to play a minimal role but you are going to need to look at how you're going to reach out to people, and maybe whether it's that..

Shelly Smith: [00:24:07] And that marketing plan is that what Jo sent e-mail around this morning saying that module seven, or eight.

Anna Jonak: [00:24:12] Yes, we're updating. We're basically we've been updating, and revising content for you guys so we've got the most up to date stuff out there for you. But yes, so but numbers first so do some number crunching. Come back to me, and get excited about pricing these products and owning them, and owning the price and what they’re all about. S end that back to me with refining those USPs again and remembering them in the context of the pricing, and what we'll do is we'll kind of like go and we'll have a little play around with the goal sheet, and sort of setting some nominal goals like how many of you'd like to sell. Get your photos done. Let's look at time lapsing, and kind of like some video sort of stuff. And I know you've been conversing with Vikki about socials, and let's look at getting you kind of out there, and launching. Did you have people on a waitlist for launch? Remind me. I don't, when you did your surveys.

Shelly Smith: [00:24:55] No no. You know when you said videos, I did spend some time looking at stop motion, is it called stop motion where everything is, have you seen that website called No Issue which they sell customised tissue paper for gifts, and on their website it's a fabulous video and they use stop motion because I've been in contact with the few people on Fiverr just to talk to them about it, but it's incredibly time consuming, because for every little image that moves you have to take a still shot before you put them [inaudible]. But then on the Wonder Made website they've actually got they’ve sped up a woman putting things in the wall but they've sped it up so that's also another way of doing it. Well I think about those two things, and just one last thing. So, once we’ve worked on the pricing of this, I've got to think about what to have as a lead magnet. I was chatting to Caroline like ages ago, but I don't think Caroline knew where I was at. And so, for lead magnet of like 10 percent off or free shipping, I'm going to lose so much money. I don't think I can have it. So, I also I've been Googling and searching like the best lead magnet that you can have, that don't maybe free downloads you know they can have it straight away, but I don't know how it can work for mine like it was for a child's room. I don't think that's...

Anna Jonak: [00:26:36] Okay. So just top line. Could you throw in a free decal to start where this, is something you could to start with? Could you do something like you know throwing in a decal that goes like with something that is valued at whatever? Or could you look at something more around storage so kind of like some checklist or PDFs around storage, so something coming back to the purpose of what the box delivers? Or even something fun for like a printable that may be a printable that they can put up of a poster of one of the decals, something that kind of resonates with the imagery of what you're creating.

Shelly Smith: [00:26:48] Yes, and oh no I was oh my word. I've just been searching and searching and searching for other people's ideas, because I don't want to lose money. I need them to get something that's straight away, and it's free and then I got the email address.

Anna Jonak: [00:26:40] I think we need to see the final product and like the final things on the products to see if there's a theme, or something that we can tie it together because I appreciate that yes a discount, a lot of people offer a discount which is fine if I guess if they're buying enough in bulk, and this is something you need to test when you are doing your pricing. Let's look at the margins, and let's look at the units, and then if you were to you know add a percentage off to start with or you if you were to add a decal in obviously that comes off that margin to see what that looks like. So, I think we need to play around with those with what feels comfortable. Look these are things that we can definitely brainstorm with you, and again remember with the community for feedback, but I'd like to see the finalised, the products, kind of like let's hero it. Let's bring it to life so that we kind of like get those visuals with which to work, that we can then build out the next stuff.

Shelly Smith: [00:27:31] Brilliant. I'm going to email Jasmine right now and book in a date for photographs.

Anna Jonak: [00:27:36] Boom! It's happening. Seriously, I want you to just take a moment and be really proud of what you've achieved, and this is going to be when I do a little intro to you people are going to learn a lot about the fact that what it takes to manufacture something, or to create something from scratch it is a long process. It does take time but also from my conversation, it's so important to be clear on pricing and pricing yourself right. It really is because otherwise as I said you are spending a lot of time and energy, and you'll end up running a business for nothing. So, this is now about testing, it's about being smart, it's about checking that kind of profitability, and viability, and setting goals, and like I said owning what you're doing. And I think that all of this will come together for you. And so, we've just got to kind of persist, and I will wait then really for your next steps to kind of come back to me with some numbers and we'll do some more crunching and I look forward to seeing Jasmine's photos. She doesn't even know, Jasmine. Jasmine if you're listening, I look forward to seeing those photos. [both laugh] Awesome. Okay. Do you feel like you've got some good next steps?

Shelly Smith: [00:28:36] Yes! Lovely. Yep written it down. Okay excellent. I’ve got that to work on now Excellent. Thanks so much. Thank you so much.

Anna Jonak: [00:28:43] You're welcome. I mean I'm genuinely excited. Obviously, we've been part of this journey for the last twelve months, and seeing it all come together. I've seen what you put in the forum for Vikki though, and they look great. Like I've seen like some of your mock ups. So, get excited. Next steps now.

Shelly Smith: [00:28:57] I’m so tired of seeing the same thing in my head all the time, that I don't know what other people think about it, and I've tried so hard to be different you know. And tried to as I said solve those mums pain points but it's only seen through my eyes. And so, I'm just getting tired of seeing the same thing and I just keep going well who's actually going to like this you know. But I think once the professional photographs are done, and then you get some feedback from other people and see it through their eyes you know that it's you know.

Anna Jonak: [00:29:24] Absolutely. You could also do another focus group if you need to like there's so much potential with regards to creating mini group within our group to ask questions like don't ever doubt, just ask. And I think that that's what you need to do is to reach out to ask, and we'll give you that feedback. So, between us all there is enough kind of eyes and ears and thoughts to kind of help you kind of remove yourself from the perspective that you have from being in it for so long and let us kind of like help shake it back up. And like I said I've seen it with a few people who are in your boat who have been going through the process of creating their own products, and have been in the process for so long. You need to be able to step out of it. So, you go away, come back to me with those numbers. Let's move you forward and well this really is about being brave in your business now, because it's about putting yourself out there. So, I can end on that note and say everybody, right now you can see Shelly being brave in her business.



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