Anna chats to Johnathan Grzybowski about how he got his first 100 customers through the door in his newest business venture.
This week Anna Jonak chats with Johnathan Grzybowski founder of Penji who shares with us just how he pushed through his hardest first year in business to score himself 200 clients and build out his team of 30 graphic designers.
It was an up hill battle to say the least - with rejection after rejection, desperate moves and some serious persistence - but he takes you through his thought process, strategies and mindset from starting out to seeing things through.
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TUNE IN TO HEAR ABOUT
- How the need to simplify the graphic design process for clients sparked a new business model for Penji
- Why branding plays such a crucial role when a prospect finds you for the first time
- How you can be a socially conscious business too
- How finding a way to give back can open more doors for you
- An insight into Penji’s first year of business with its challenges and learnings
CONNECT WITH JOHNATHAN
Anna Jonak: [00:00:00] Welcome to Episode 25 of the Raising Her Game Podcast. We're Anna and Flori, the queens of small business, and we deliver female entrepreneurs both the business and mindset tools needed to start, grow and scale your small business for success. And hello everybody and welcome to today's episode you've got Anna J. at the helm and I have a cracking session planned for you today because I have the pleasure and privilege of interviewing the incredible Johnathan Grzybowski founder of the revolutionary Penji. Now I'm really excited to speak to you about this business model that you have because it really is extraordinary in the way that it serves its consumers but also its employees. And on top of that, you are also running a podcast so I'm not sure how you're managing to juggle all these balls but would love for you to tell me a little bit more about how you're doing, what you do on both fronts. Please, Johnathan.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:00:47] Yeah, well the answer is there's a lot of good wine to just make it a little bit more manageable. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak to you today. Love podcasting. I think podcasting is one of the most incredible things that you can have because it's a real, raw, honest relationship in conversation. So excited to answer whatever I can to help everybody that's listening and watching.
Anna Jonak: [00:01:12] Well, I love it. It is a bit random when you haven't.. you don't know someone that well and then you kind of get into a conversation or in this case a video chat. And it's like hey man.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:01:20] We're going to be best friends after this.
Anna Jonak: [00:01:24] Johnathan is in the middle of a street somewhere sat here talking to me aren't you under the most amazing lighting. It’s doing wonders for you.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:01:31] You can't pay for this lighting. You know I feel like you go onto Amazon or you search Google and you're like how do I get better lighting. Just go under a streetlight. And it will probably be the best lighting you'll ever get in your life.
Anna Jonak: [00:01:45] Hey so I've just got to get back to topic of wine. So what's your wine of preference out of interest?
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:01:50] Oh jeez. So, right it depends on the day, depends on the time, the scenery. This weekend was a wedding, so I was drinking a Rose and all my friends made fun of me for which I don't really care. But Rose is beautiful. Any type of white, sparkling, cava, champagne. If you want to know regions, I'm for primarily French wine although last night I got a taste of a really obscure bottle from New Zealand.
Anna Jonak: [00:02:23] That's not so obscure for us given we're like Australia and New Zealand.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:02:27] Yeah yeah I know it's very obscure for us here so I'm here in Philadelphia so yeah I mean wine is a beautiful thing. It's good for conversation too.
Anna Jonak: [00:02:38] It is and I'll tell you what, as a mum at the end of the day with multiple children it's needed. So it becomes part of the wind down. Please, please, please tell me a bit about your business Penji. I'm really keen to understand the business model. And I think it could potentially be something that would be really interesting for our students as well to see how it's grown and what it's come from.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:02:59] Yeah. So Penji is an unlimited graphic design membership all at one flat monthly rate. And businesses can sign up for Penji on our website and they are immediately met with a back end platform that allows them to communicate with their graphic design team, submit all of their graphic designs, add and receive revisions. It's ranging starting at three hundred forty nine dollars a month and you can get as many graphic designs as you need and there's no catch or anything like that. There's no hidden fees. It's 349 U.S. dollars. And, so if you need a logo or if you need a sales sheet or if you need podcast materials, advertisements. The list goes on and on. We can do over 150 different forms of graphic design and once one design is done and we move onto the second design and then we'll go to the third and fourth and fifth. etc. So we're constantly working for our customers and it just leads for a better experience because the one thing that all businesses need is to differentiate themselves and the best way to differentiate yourself is a good form of design. So if you look good, I mean just like as a suit or a dress, if you look good, you'll exude confidence and that confidence could lead to, in business, it could lead to a sale or could lead to you being different., your prospect choosing you over your competition.
Anna Jonak: [00:04:36] 100%. Branding is so important, like branding is something that we preach in terms of importance and people make such quick decisions when they come to a site or they assess a piece of your material and if it's not up to scratch then people are going to leave and the chance of them coming back it's like so you know it's gone.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:04:53] You have one opportunity to make a good first impression and so what we believe is if you can look the part, we give you the tools in order to do that, that's what Penji is. And you can use this as often as you like or as little as you like is completely up to you.
Anna Jonak: [00:05:08] So basically it's like having your own graphic designer on retainer. But on a smaller retainer and you get as many revisions as you like.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:05:15] Yes I think one of the hardest things to do in graphic design, so prior to us being what we are now, we used to be a graphic design agency. We used to be like a web design, app design, SEO. We were a full service marketing agency. We did everything but we specialised in nothing. And one of the hardest things to do internally was to have that conversation with our design team and say hey this person needs this. This person needs that. They need to make a revision and it needs to be done by tomorrow. So we were using primitive ways like email for example and I'm sure you've gone back and forth with somebody in e-mail where the e-mail becomes 15 emails long you're like what the f did I just talk to you about. You'll go back six days ago. It's really hard to have that conversation. And so we wanted to find a way to make it easier to kind of just go on your phone, talk to somebody in real time, be able to submit, be able to submit a revision and the designs, and so on and so forth and that's kind of like what sparked the idea of Penji was just that constant need for us internally and we decided to turn it into a business.
Anna Jonak: [00:06:26] Well I think that, I mean knowing the small business journey the students that we have so most of them are starting out and obviously from the perspective of a startup, funds are tight, so people can have this vision of their brand that isn't always met with a first or second revision on a logo. And you feel really hampered because you've spent a certain amount of money and then it's like for every revision where do you go or would you just feel satisfied with what you've got. I love the premise of the offer and I mean we have graphic, we actually have a graphic designer who we actually love and adore. She's one of our students and she kind of works for us. It's so necessary I think from business to as they're growing and evolving to have constant access and that they can keep their level right up there or they can stand out. I love when you talk about it this way.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:07:14] Well I appreciate that. Think of it this way when you guys didn't have your graphic designer, there are probably a couple of things that you did. You either A, you did it yourself. I'm sure the students that are listening there are thinking like okay well I've done it myself. I'm doing it myself. Just think if you can invest just a little bit of time and a little bit of money into your business what can come out of it. And I'm not trying to give you the pitch or sell anybody but if you are the type of person that is doing it themselves or if you are the type of person going onto freelancing websites in order to hire these people you have to interview them. You have to talk to them. You have to make sure that they understand your brand, your messaging. And there is a bond there and if you're at the other angle and you're actually going to hire somebody that's another thing, too. It takes a lot of time and money and benefits and all that stuff. So we just wanted to make it you know silly simple and just one flat rate. If you need it awesome. If not, that's cool too.
Anna Jonak: [00:08:17] I love it. Well we're definitely putting a link to the business that people can check it out. For some people it might be like an absolute ideal solution. Personally, for us as a business and brand, like elevating our brand, we did DIY to start with, we did some DIY I say we, I don't do that, my business partner did that. I'm so not creative. And as soon as we made the big change it elevated everything like we could see the massive difference in sales from that. And now every time we put a piece of marketing material out it's like everything has got to be that top notch.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:08:50] And you have a standard now too which I’m sure is good.
Anna Jonak: [00:08:51] Absolutely. So there's another side to your business though as well with regards to the community you serve. Is that right?
A SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS BUSINESS
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:09:00] Yes. So we are very proud to say that we're also a community conscious organisation which means that we give back and when we give back, we give back generously. At times it's not a monetary amount of your X amount of dollars but what we can do is we can provide opportunities to students and residents of our city. So we're located in Camden, New Jersey which is a city right outside Philadelphia. So if people were listening, if what Brooklyn is to New York, Camden is to Philadelphia. It's like you can look over the bridge and you can see the whole city. I don't know what it is what the correlation is to you. But so Camden is, if you google, it is the most dangerous city, at one point it was the most dangerous city in America. And we strategically located our business there and headquarter our business there because we wanted to give kids opportunities. So what we do is we provide jobs and internships to students and residents of Camden. So even though the system may have failed them and society doesn't look in their direction, we want to kind of let them know and say hey there's an opportunity here to make a name for yourself. Come work with us. We'll train you, we'll teach you. We'll give you all the necessary tools. We're a huge proponent in helping other people fulfil their dreams. What we found is the people that we've hired all of them have aspirations of being their own business owner. And so what better way to learn about this is learn it from people who have no idea what they're doing but figure out a way to just make it work so if they get first hand experience by working with a company like us.
Anna Jonak: [00:10:49] That's so amazing. And do you know what kind of the tipping point was for you to kind of make that leap? Has it always been a desire to do something from the, you know, social consciousness?
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:11:02] Yeah, I would say so. I think it's a combination of like you know I have a podcast there that the goal and the purpose of the podcast is to help the next generation of entrepreneurs execute their vision. And my business partner, he has a business that helps us in economic development. And so you know him practising what he preaches and me practising what we preach, we decided to come together for this initiative. And what we've found is that by generously giving and not expecting anything in return, it's opened up so many new opportunities for new relationships and new connections and literally you name it. Just the doors have opened up and it wasn't something that we necessarily planned on doing. It just was a byproduct of everything that happened naturally. So I would challenge to the people that are listening, find a way to give back because you feel good at the end of the day. But you know some things can be thrown your way that make it beneficial for your business and for you.
Anna Jonak: [00:12:10] That's a really nice way of looking and certainly an approach we want people to look at which is all about the value you are giving in helping people and looking at it from that angle. I totally agree that when your focus is on that rather than everything else doors do seem to open up and help you take your business in a different direction. And I think as well on that note, so many people as you said you started and I looked through your history and you started in one place and look at where you are now. You almost don’t know you're going to get there so you or you don't really know where the end this. You just follow the path and see where it takes you.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:12:41] I think entrepreneurship is such a dark place. [Anna laughs] It's a dark thing and how you and your whole team are - is being able to manage what you do in family and life and just I applaud you guys, girls, women so much and to the people listening if you have, I don't even have kids. I just have a business and for me, I can understand how dark and treacherous entrepreneurship can be. You're right. You know you don't really know that you're going to be going down this route. You don't know if it's going to succeed. But I feel like for us and this is what's happened the past six or nine months. As long as we're better than what we were yesterday and as long as we're moving the needle even if it's like you know just a small little microcosm of an inch, there is going to be, you're going to receive the reward. It may not be the next day but there are things that we did six months or so ago that we're receiving the benefits to it today you know. So that's why I would just say as long as you're making positive change and just moving the needle forward I think your business will flourish.
Anna Jonak: [00:13:56] That's it. One little step at a time, just making sure you're taking purposeful action every day. [Johnathan agrees] Yeah. Same for us last six months has been incredible from where we started and we've worked so so hard. It's been insane the hours put in around the kids and the family and my business partner Flori who you’ve met, she's about to have her third. Holy moly. But just seeing that enormous growth over the last six months and I mean that’s really starting to kick in now has just I mean it makes it all worth it when you're in that kinda like funk, of like just doing, but it just goes to show, just do and it will come.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:14:30] Absolutely. Do read. I think that's another thing too. If you read a lot of books. I think it just expands your mind and makes you think differently and do different things.
Anna Jonak: [00:14:41] The best book you've ever read?
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:14:48] Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull, Higher Management... I don't really read the titles. I kind of just like sift through books and the chapters and I find this chapter and like I need to know that and I just I go through it.
Anna Jonak: [00:15:05] I like it. That's your way of consuming. I'm an audiobook listener because I like to walk and I'm always kind of like audio or podcast, I find them really useful. So how old is Penji as a business?
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:15:16] Penji is, what’s today’s date, October. We will be celebrating one year on October 21st two thousand eighteen.
Anna Jonak: [00:15:28] Wowee.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:15:28] So yes very very very awesome.
THE FIRST YEAR IN BUSINESS
Anna Jonak: [00:15:33] Talk to me about and how many clients have you got, how fast and furious has it been. Was it a slow start? Was it a build up? We're really keen to see how your first year in this business has gone.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:15:45] So, I'll give you the full spiel. So we started we had the idea in June of last year, from June we had this preliminary conversation within our network of people. And we said OK well this is what we think we want to do. Would you buy it. Does this interest you at all? You think we should do it. We got such an overwhelming majority of people that said yes we're like oh crap. Now we have to do this. Because I think once you validate it, once you're able to validate the idea and people need it, then you have to explore it. So we explored it and we had about you know maybe 20, 30 clients before we even launched. And so that was like a huge thing for us. And then we launched and then you know I'd say like every business there is probably like a glass ceiling that we needed to break. And we got our first 100 customers doing unscalable processes so things like cold calls. We did things like events, we went to events and we sent e-mails to our network and we sent cold e-mails and all that stuff. And so then we got like a good base. And then once we got to base then we said okay well what's going to get us the next hundred? Is it gonna get us, is it the same way that we got the first hundred? So then we started. OK. Or how could we scale. Then we invested the money and we put a little bit of money in advertisements. They we put a little bit of money in sponsorships of events and put a little bit of money in developing the right processes and procedures. So we're 100 percent cash flow positive. We've never received an ounce of funding. We have over 33 people in our organisation we've received over, we have over 300 plus customers, and growing every single day and that's all happened within the first year. So it's not sexy by any means. But it has a lot of like putting your head down and focusing on what again what moves that needle forward every single day.
Anna Jonak: [00:18:06] Well I like the fact that first of all you said that you did the market research and I think that's something that we certainly teach to our students that one of the starting points is that idea validation. It's making sure that you have got something that people actually want and need as opposed to just expecting people to want it because you think it's a good idea. So the fact that you did that and got feedback and then obviously managed to start building clients straight away from that would have been a fantastic sign.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:18:31] We did. We did market research twice. So we did the preliminary reaching out to our network and then we got a couple customers and we gave them feedback. What Penji is now wasn't what Penji used to be. It had like a whole more different features that we won’t even get into in this conversation. By then we did it again. So we got the initial base that we wanted to validate it even further and then we sent out a survey to a couple of hundred people and then so we had the base and then we had the new base and the combination of that was in addition to other things. That was how we grew the company.
Anna Jonak: [00:19:15] That's fantastic. And I think that that's really great for people listening because a lot of people don't do the research phase and research is really fundamental. [Johnathan agrees] So good to see that you validated and generated the clients and then beyond that as you said it's a lot of hustle a lot of getting out there and putting yourself out there and getting uncomfortable and the cold calls, the cold e-mails, the stuff that isn't nice, the stuff that is like please listen to me, please see me. Hello.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:19:40] Yeah. Yeah that's exactly it. I would argue. So when we live in Camden, I live in an apartment and I oversee Philadelphia. So we kind of hit us when we're looking at our apartment looking over at the city of Philadelphia we were like you know what, our next hundred customers isn't going to be this like global scale. It's probably going to be located right over the bridge, in our case it's a bridge. So I would say that the people listening if you're struggling in sales or if you need sales or if you need something with your business. I would argue that your next customer is probably within five miles within where you're geographically located right now. You just have to find a way to tap into that network in order to get them. And it's kind of like what we've focused on, let's get a base, let's get well known in one geographic region first and then once people know us then they can, then we'll kind of put more advertising dollars in like a global scale. Like if you're a business you have limited funds and resources you can't go out and spend all this money on a global marketing campaign. You're going to run out of funds and there is almost a hundred percent guarantee of failure. So you have to be a little bit to be smart with your money too.
Anna Jonak: [00:21:08] I think from a global perspective the audience is so different in different markets. So the messaging, the approach and everything is just completely different and we've got to say that most of our customers come from Australia, the UK or New Zealand and we have started to attract some U.S. which is great but definitely it's one of those things where because we haven't been in that space for very long, we don't know the market that well and it's completely like there's a lot of research that we need to do to be able to articulate our message the right way to drive that sort of traffic.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:21:43] You know, what I would argue is if you want to understand your customers, if you want to understand the people that you're trying to go after, the best thing to do is talk to the people who are currently your customers and ask them why they signed up for your service. You could probably think in your head like yeah you know I know my customers and I talk to them all the time but pass them the question why did you sign up for this service. Why did you become a customer rather than you know somebody else. And if you interview it and use a platform like Skype or Zoom or whatever it is that you use in order to track that information and data, use the verbiage that your customers are saying in order to in order for your marketing so like I’ll give an example. We have an ad right now that's being run and it's a dragon like a drawing hand drawn dragon with like a knight in shining armour protecting the princess. So we created an ad because somebody came out to us and said Penji is our knight in shining armour they're always there to protect us, they're always there to help us. So we're like let's use it let's see let's see if it works out and it ends up being like one of our best ads that we've ever ran because we just use the verbiage from our customers and there's so many other case studies about that too. But that's just like one keen example that I can think of off the top of my head directly applied to a sale because we use the verbiage from the customer that gave us feedback.
Anna Jonak: [00:23:20] Using the customer's language. We've done lots so we do kind of do focus groups and I've done things I've done phone interviews as well and having those conversations has enabled us to improve our sales page copy infinitely when it comes to people learning about their pain points and how they're feeling. The same thing yeh in your ads and landing pages. This sort of stuff really is the stuff that makes a difference. I love that you're talking our language. [laughing] We're on the same page.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:23:47] Absolutely.
Anna Jonak: [00:23:48] So how do you manage your mindset. Well one thing that we do a bit different in our business school is I'm a life coach and do a lot of mindset training and so would love tonight if you got any tips around how you'd handled your mindset through the fast and furious first year you've had basically.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:24:02] Again this isn't sexy. It's not fun to talk about it but I think for me it's like working out, going to the gym is like my serenity. Any time that I can go out of my way to just sweat. I was feeling really stressed out two days ago just about life in general. Nothing like too pressing and I ended up running like a mile and a half. It's nothing crazy just something small just to get my blood flowing, oxygen circulating right through my system. As soon as I got home I felt infinitely better. So something like that is a huge help. [car horn sounds in the background]. Sorry.
Anna Jonak: [00:24:42] That’s alright it’s real life. Keeping it real. [laughing]
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:24:47]Yeah there's nothing more real in this conversation. Exactly. And then the next thing would be like I do use Headspace. And that is great. Yeah Headspace is a meditation app. Love love love that.
Anna Jonak: [00:25:07] Do you build that into your every day, like is it part of routine with the meditation and the exercise or is it more ad hoc when you feel you need it?
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:25:16] So yes and no. I'll be honest like I am not the best at it. But it goes in spurts. There are days where it's like I know I need to do it but there's just so many other things on my mind that I just, it takes precedence over meditation, but I can find myself having a more clear mind the more I meditate versus non meditating but yeah anyway anything that you can do to just like remove yourself and think, driving a car for me is that as well. Sometimes I just get in the car and drive, no end in sight, I'm just driving.
Anna Jonak: [00:25:57] It's kind of a mental essentially, the you know kind of scenario as being a mental switch off. It's kind of stepping out of all the things going on and giving yourself some quiet time.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:26:06] Yeah I think so. I think like doing things that aren’t your normal every day thing, because if you kind of have like a robotic routine then you kind of just like oh I have to meditate today like it's 6 o'clock and that works. But I feel like if you're able to drive a different route to work or if you just take, if you just walk instead of run or you run instead of walk or whatever it is. I think that that brings a lot of mental clarity.
Anna Jonak: [00:26:36] Awesome! And can I just ask how have you handled the down days or the noes like when you had door shut on your face and when things didn't go to plan.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:26:47] How do I, honestly, I've just been, I think that there's a strong suit that I have if I could say that there's like one strong thing that I'm really good at is handling rejection. I've been rejected so many times whether it's girls, [both laughing] whether it's prospects whatever it may be. Luckily I finally had a girlfriend that you know weirdly said yes to dating me.
Anna Jonak: [00:27:13] Yay!.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:27:14] I know right. But I would say, I just accept rejection and I know that when I receive rejection I'm one step closer to a yes. So like I'm totally okay with hearing no, repeatedly. Six times ten times a day. In fact, we actually in the very beginning of our company, I feel like we should do this often. We should do this again. Every time we had 10 noes we celebrate it and we had like poppers and stuff like that. And we celebrated because we knew that we were, I think that there's that mathematics behind it. It was like if you hit 10 noes then the next one's going to be a yes so we would always celebrate 10 noes because we like alright guys we are ready to go. We're about to get a yes!
Anna Jonak: [00:28:03] The next one. [laughing]
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:28:04] The next one going to be it. And the next one ends up not being it but then you’re like alright guys the next one that's going to be it. So it increases your employee morale, increases your morale because you're constantly hearing no. So yeah. I'm so used to it by now that I mean that's just one example. But if I were to have like an actual down day which it does happen. I just have to take a step back and realise like what, why is it bothering me, what is bothering me and kind of have like, a look at yourself in the mirror conversations say like I'm I angry now is it because my ego was tarnished? Was my ego scratched a little bit. Did I say something that I shouldn't have said? Did I get in a weird conversation or an argument or whatever it may be like why did this happen today. And I've found that the most positive days come with the best positive results in business. And so you're going to have those bad days. You have to find a way to talk to yourself through it and just assess if that makes sense.
Anna Jonak: [00:29:11] It sounds like you're asking yourself the questions to sort of take accountability or responsibility.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:29:17] Absolutely.
Anna Jonak: [00:29:17] And I think that a lot of people don't do that that they kind of become the victims and they sit back and say oh this is happening to me and woe is my life as opposed to hang on a second, what's happening? What did I do? What can we do differently?
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:29:30] We constantly blame other people.
Anna Jonak: [00:29:31] Yeah. Exactly.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:29:33] They're blaming, I know it's his fault or her fault. Like yeah could be. But like you're still to blame though.
Anna Jonak: [00:29:40] Yeah! And funny you can say that to people sometimes, like it's still your fault. Just wake up to it.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:29:46] You're an a-hole that's your damn fault. [both laugh]
Anna Jonak: [00:29:49] Take the lesson. I love it. Okay, well look so much gold, I mean I know I'm literally loving everything you said and I know that there's going to be a ton here for people to take out of it from the mindset side of things to the research, to going for it to doing the hard stuff. So many lessons here and I'm very conscious you are on the sidewalk talking to you right now so I'm not going to keep you that long.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:30:09] We can talk all day. I'm comfortable now. We're rocking and rolling here.
Anna Jonak: [00:30:14] I'm in this spot. I'm just waiting for someone to approach you from the side and give me a little hello or something.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:30:20] Yeah. If you look into my eyes you can see that I've been looking at some people. You know what, we're good. You can keep talking. I don't care. I love this stuff. This is like to me, this is therapy as well because you're able to help people. I like helping people. It's fun.
Anna Jonak: [00:30:39] So talk to me then okay a few more questions. I'd love to know what you've learned from your podcast experience in terms of I guess the insights that you've had with what people have done to keep on keeping on because essentially what you're saying from reading the vision that you have it's about helping to see how the failures and how all of these things how they push through them. And I guess giving a real raw look on what it is to be an entrepreneur. Because as you said it's not sexy, it's hard work. So what are some key lessons that you might like to share that people can take out of the experience you've had in your podcast journey.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:31:12] I feel like I realise that a lot of people, like nobody really has it figured out. Nobody really knows what they're doing. I've interviewed high-level people. And even then they kind of just say yeah you know I did it. But it wasn't glamorous. So I think like every journey is beautiful in its own little way. You just kind of sort of find your story. And I've also found that people want to naturally help others but I also found that a lot of people are selfish as well. Extremely selfish. And that's like the negative side of things. And there's like various ways that people are selfish which is unfortunate. Yeah, I just think that nobody really has it figured out and you just have to be okay with that. I think that's the main thing because like one question I get asked every single time it's like three pieces of advice and I've gotten so much crazy advice that if you listen to everything you would be like all over the place. [Anna agrees] I think that's what a lot of people do too as they listen to so much content and they watch so much stuff like YouTube videos and they're like oh you know they listened to this podcast and like Holy crap I need to go out and do this right now. And that may not be the case. So you have to kind of take everything that people say with a grain of salt and see if it actually applies to you. Nine times out often it probably won’t, but maybe you can take like one little word that I said today and apply it to your business. I don't know what it is but you have to figure it out yourself. I think that's the main, that's another thing I learned from the podcast.
Anna Jonak: [00:32:56] I think that we, well we have a program, so we teach our students basically how to start business so all the fundamentals to laying those foundations and then we start looking at working to scale, so Facebook ads and other bits and pieces and sometimes people come in and they get overwhelmed because there’s a lot of content, there’s a lot of steps to take. And I was literally just running a class every day just saying to everybody you have to also trust your gut in knowing which areas to follow. And it's not having everything done perfectly and in the right order and it's literally about to seeing what pulls you in the right direction, asking for help, reaching out and saying I'm going to do this or this. What do you think is right for my business. Because we do it a lot in our forum answering questions. And it's that, it's the fact that you have to realise that this is your journey, take ownership of it. Ask for help when you need it but also trust your gut. I think a lot of times people know but people get caught up in that perfection of I should do every single thing and there's so much to running a business you can't be focused on all the things. You have to have goals and small things you’re working towards which then build out.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:33:58] Hundred percent agree with you. I mean we're definitely speaking very similar languages here. If you don't have goals, like we write down everything. We have daily goals. We have weekly goals. We have monthly goals. We have quarterly goals, yearly goals. If you're not consciously looking at them then what are they there for. So, if you don't have that goal then you don't know what you're going toward. You're kinda just like, if you don't have a goal that's fine, but you definitely need to find a way. You have to have a North Star to constantly go towards.
Anna Jonak: [00:34:29] Yeah. Otherwise a lot of people get up and they don't know what they're doing with their day and they got caught up in doing infinite task of social media. We talk about this all the time. So much time on social media. Stop posting, go do something productive, go connect with someone or you know reach out, work on your sales funnel or do stuff that's going to have a longer term impact. Not that that kind of glossy outlook right now.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:34:51] It's easy to do that. It's so easy to do the stuff that's like easy to do and it sounds silly but I mean I'm guilty of that too sometimes. I'm like I don't really want to, I really don't want to have this meeting, I don't really want to send that e-mail. I'd rather do xyz and then you end up having fun because it's your day you do whatever you want. I'm definitely a victim to it, I'm not perfect by any means necessary. BUT, I think being aware of it is a first step then you can kind of, that's why Penji was created. What can we do in order to help people take away that time and focus on their sales funnel or focus on those, don't have this focus on social media anymore. If you're spending more than five hours a week on social media and 10 hours a month on social media you probably need a service like ours or like a company like work with a company like yours in order to get them out of that state of mind and focus on the right things that matter. It's really hard but it takes a lot of discipline to do it. Not a lot of people are cut out for it.
Anna Jonak: [00:36:01] Well yeah I think that, if you can train your mind to catch yourself in procrastination and we've done a lot in a class this week about I guess time blocking, suddenly switching everything off and just going into the zone and getting the hard stuff done first and then kind of realising that you can do social. But the big message out for our class this week was just stop trying to do all the things. You can't do all the things so pick a couple of things that you're going to really like excel at.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:36:27] Hundred percent agree. Yeah you're spot on.
Anna Jonak: [00:36:30] Well look, I am going to say a massive thank you. I've really enjoyed chatting to you. And like I said I know that there's going to be lots of nuggets and I know that then we've got a wonderful V.A. who is going to help us like pull this together into a script.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:36:45] Thank you VA.
Anna Jonak: [00:36:47] She always send me like when she listens in and she does the script she's like wow I love this I love listening and learning the nuggets because she gets to listen to it a few times so I'm sure she'll be on to me in the next few days as we record this and get it all up and out. And let's wrap up, we wrap up with a parting thought so I'm gonna put you on the spot here and just one parting thought that you could leave with our listeners. What would that be? When it comes to your entrepreneur journey.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:37:15] Yeah I would just say I think ego has a lot to do with you being a massive success versus a complete failure. And if you let your ego get in the way of silly conversations, if you let your ego get in the way because you feel as if that you should be doing something vs the other person or whatever it is there's so many scenarios that your ego gets in the way. Just take a step back if you're the owner of a company or whatever position that you are in. Check your ego at the door. Let yourself know that the people that you hired are there for a reason. They're smarter than you. They should be smarter than you. That's one thing. And just even your ego in general like your ego can change things drastically with your company just by one slight scratch and you just have to stay humble and just not let your ego get in the way. That will be my parting thought.
Anna Jonak: [00:38:20] Nice. Well that will be going up on our social media. I'll be sure to tag you in all of this when we get it up on social.
Johnathan Grzybowski: [00:38:24] Yes!
Anna Jonak: [00:38:29]Yes on social! Awesome! I'm going to wrap up and say to our listeners, on the back of all of these so much gold, but the biggest thing to remember from our point of view is always to be brave in your business.
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