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TUNE IN TO HEAR ABOUT
- The 3 step strategy when it comes to approaching your FB ads
- Why you need to have your FB ads running all the time
- How using different objectives is key to getting better Return on Ad Spend
- What metrics you need to be on top of all the time
- How persevering with your ads strategy is fundamental because things will go wrong
- What resources you can plug into to keep on top of what's happening & what's working on the FB ads platform
Salome is the CEO and Founder of Shine and Succeed, and agency that helps digital course creators launch bigger, grow more consistently and scale faster using Facebook and Instagram advertising. After a few failed attempts at building a coaching business and then a social media business, Salome found herself video blogging about business mindset and online marketing strategies. She successfully turned her Mommy-Vlog into a profitable online course and in doing so discovered a passion for helping others do the same.
CONNECT WITH SALOME
Flori Pyke [00:01:25] Hello and welcome to Episode 65. You've got Flori at the helm today. And, today I get to chat with a Facebook ad strategist and expert Salome Schillack. I'm pronouncing that correctly am I? [Salome says "You did. Well done."] I love it. It's very unique, isn't it?
Salome Schillack [00:01:43] Yes, it is. It is a French name. It comes from the Hebrew word Shalom which means peace and power.
Flori Pyke [00:01:50] Oh gosh. So much goodness just packed into that one name.
Salome Schillack [00:01:54] Yeah. Yeah. Lots of goodness. Thank you for having me.
Flori Pyke [00:01:57] No, it's such a pleasure. I'm super excited to chat with you today about all things Facebook ads. This is where like, if I had little nerdy glasses, I would be like yup blinking up and down because I'm sooo excited.
Salome Schillack [00:02:10] Yes. I am wearing my nerdy glasses and I'm ready to nerd out on Facebook ads.
Flori Pyke [00:02:15] I love it. By the way, where's the accent from? are you?
Salome Schillack [00:02:18] South Africa. I was born and raised in South Africa and then moved to the U.K., lived there for three years then moved back to South Africa and then my then boyfriend said "Will you marry me and move to Australia?" And that was 11 years ago. And we've been in Australia ever since.
Flori Pyke [00:02:34] Wow. I love it. Fantastic. All right. So, Salome tell me before we kind of get into the nuts and bolts of today, I'd love for us all, our listeners, myself to really understand a little bit more around what you do. You have a company called Shine and Succeed, right?
Salome Schillack [00:02:51] Yes. Shine and Succeed is an agency where I have a bunch of really awesome women working with me to run Facebook and Instagram ads to help people who sell information products or digital courses to launch bigger and then to grow and scale their businesses beyond seven figures with Facebook and Instagram ads.
Flori Pyke [00:03:15] Wow. Now, on that note. So, of course, had to do my due diligence before we hopped on the podcast and I was doing a little stalk of your website and I noticed some pretty big testimonials on there. So, not to name drop or anything but Amy Porterfield and Rick Mulready.
Salome Schillack [00:03:33] Yes. So, Amy and Rick are like my mummy and daddy [both laugh] in this online world. I made my very first dollar online after taking Amy's Webinars that Convert Course and it completely changed my life because it opened up this possibility that I do not have to work for a boss. You know it's for me it was this kind of a choice between working for a boss to earn money or being a stay at home mum and neither of those two things were an option for me. But I didn't know how I'm going to do it. I didn't know how I'm going to make money. I didn't know what I knew that I could monetise. So, I started a coaching business as we all do and failed miserably. I was the world's worst coach because I just wouldn't tell people how to go and do stuff. I don't want to ask them lots of questions and get them to uncover it themselves. So, I launched an online course, took Amy Porterfield's Webinars that Convert Course, launched an online course, made some money, life changed completely different, went down a few other paths and I realised when I started learning about creating online courses I realised that oh I need to learn Facebook ads if I'm going to sell on my online course. And that was my introduction to Mulready. And Rick has been, I think I am the O.Gof Rick's community, I've been a student of Rick's since 2015. I've been the coach inside of his accelerator group where I got to coach his students and then Amy asked me to be the support for her students as well in her paid programs or Digital Course Academy program and her Insider's Club. I've been the go-to person to answer Facebook ads questions for them and then I've worked with some amazing, other amazing men and women, mostly women who do have big online course businesses. And I get to really get to make a big impact in the world which I love and get to work with amazing people.
Flori Pyke [00:05:29] Wow I'm impressed. That's pretty cool. I mean I can definitely see the synergy there between Amy and Rick in particular because I know they're pretty good buddies from what I've kind of heard around the trap. So how cool. You know I love that you... can we just touch on that actually just the fact that like I love how you started with the course learning from them and then you've obviously used that opportunity to arguably introduce yourself and show your ability to learn and apply and you've put yourself out there, tapped on the shoulder to some degree is my guess.And then, you've been able to work for them now and I think that is phenomenal. And, yeah like it just goes to show how you got to seize those opportunities and you certainly did. So...
Salome Schillack [00:06:18] Yeah. And, I want to add to that like I am not... what I've come to learn about myself is I prefer to go deep with fewer people than wide with the masses. I’m probably never going to have a massive social media following because it will exhaust me. But, with a handful of really good relationships and by going really deep with fewer people I feel like I add more value and I engage in a deeper level so I learned initially from Amy and then from Rick and I bought Amy Porterfield's B School Experience at one point and part of the reason I bought that was because she was offering a live event where Rick will be there. Rick was going to be there and she was going to be there. And, the reason I bought that, the reason I invested in B School was to go to Amy's live event and be in the room with Rick and Amy because I'd been living in Perth in complete isolation. I was an absolute alien to my friends. They had no idea what I was doing online and what I was trying [Flori laughs] to figure out here, why I'm always going live on Facebook and what this thing is that I'm doing and I just felt like I have to get in the room with these people who are doing it. I have to normalise this and be in the flesh with people who are actually doing it. So, I sent Rick's assistant Justin, I sent him an email and I said hey Justin I'm coming all the way to San Diego from Perth. Is there any way I can have a coffee with Rick? And, he was like hmmm I don't know. I'll check. And, luckily Rick replied and he said yes, you'll have a coffee with me and I had a coffee with him and at that stage I'd already given Rick testimonials for his program so he knew who I was. I was a complete stranger but you know I had done some stuff and I'd gotten some clients and had some challenges and asked him questions and engaged with him in the group and had a coffee and then when we had the coffee he sent Amy a message and said hey keep a lookout for me at the event. I'm one of his students and she should keep a lookout. And, I was just that day when I got there and I was like oh you're Salome. Yes, we're gonna find you some clients, we're gonna get you some work, we're going to do some stuff for you. I was like I just bawled my eyes out. I couldn't believe it's happening and Amy's been incredibly generous and she's helped me find clients and I left that live event in San Diego with four clients signed up and I quit my job and [Flori says "wow"] started freelancing as a Facebook ads manager and then last year I turned the freelance business into an agency and now it's just growing and getting bigger and better and we're making a bigger impact. But it all started with just adding value to [Flori agrees] just one person and just showing up for one person and being there and engaging and adding.
Flori Pyke [00:09:03] Totally. And also like just not being afraid like you went out there, put yourself out there and that we talk a lot about mindset on this podcast and because it's huge around what we do and also just business in general and I love that you just kind of grab that opportunity by the balls and made the most of it for the lack of a better description like good on you.
Salome Schillack [00:09:25] Grabbing it by the balls is the right term. But I will tell you I was scared out of my mind. I was insanely scared. And, I just knew I just have to put the one foot in front of the other one, in front of the other one and be brave and just do it. I have nothing to lose. [Flori agrees] And I loved what you said about mindset, I kind of live by this rule as long as you're coming from a place of gratitude and love and you show up and serve and you lead with giving, you'll be OK. [Flori agrees] You know you can reach out to anybody and they can reject you. And, as long as you're led with gratitude and with the heart of giving, you'll be OK and if they reject you, fine. And then, you just do the same thing with someone else and you just keep going.
Flori Pyke [00:10:11] I love it, so much truth and I love that story. So, thank you for sharing that with us. Now, let's get into chatting about Facebook ads because I... Well, do you know what I'm going to be honest I was going to say, I love Facebook ads and I do. [Salome laughs and says "You liar."] That's the thing, right? Don't we all have this love hate relationship with it because when things are going well it's like oh my god Facebook ads is the bee's knees. You know I'm rocking it. I got this blah blah blah. [Salome agrees] When things are not going so well. Like if I had a penny for every time I swore I would be rich because that's how much it happens when things don't go well.
Salome Schillack [00:10:54] Yes, that is very, very true. And, I think I want to say almost as much as 50 percent of the time it doesn't go well. [Flori agrees] It's just one of those things that you either get the result you want or you get less than you need [Flori agrees]. And we manage you know multiple client accounts who are spending thousands and thousands of dollars and sometimes it doesn't go well. Other times it goes amazingly well. And then we turn it to a case study and you promote on your blog and you promote everywhere. But, that's why people just hear all the good news. [Flori agrees] Nobody is going to turn a failure into an example of failure and promote it. But I want your listeners to know that Facebook even us professionals who work with it every day we have glitches [Flori agrees] where Facebook is just not doing what we want it to do, glitchy and it’s not a tech issue, it’s just Facebook being glitchy. Sometimes, we get ads disapproved. If you're getting ads disapproved, you're not special. You're you know what, if I had a dollar for every time someone tells me Facebook hates me, I would be rich,because people have their ads disapproved and then they go oh Facebook hates me and it's just not true. There's a what do you call that a bug. It's not a bug. It's a like a crawler, computer system that Facebook has, that just scans ads for keywords or key phrases or things that could indicate a violation of the policy. And, so people get ads disapproved that or the ads might be perfectly legitimate. But, because this computer picked, scanner picked up a word it disapproved and then they take it personally and what I want to say just do not have any emotion about Facebook. There shouldn't be any emotion. It's just numbers. It's just a computer screen. If you have a problem, just go in and solve it.
Flori Pyke [00:12:50] Yeah totally. You covered like just through all of that which is so true. Everything you said. I think one thing that like just to highlight what Salome was saying is like you do have to persevere though, don't you? [Salome agrees] Because I feel like I come across so many business owners who, they have go at Facebook and look don't get me wrong like they might invest a bit of money like five hundred dollars, a thousand dollars and it doesn't go to plan and then they throw the towel in like you're done. What message do you have for those people? Because they're everywhere.
Salome Schillack [00:13:21] Yeah. And I've been there. I threw the towel in the first round. You know I ran ads and it's just through playing with other people's money that I kind of became more comfortable with not throwing the towel in and learn to persevere. What I want to say to them is you've got to start somewhere. [Flori agrees] And, you're going to get a result. The best thing is to know what the result is that you want before you start.That would be the number one thing I think that newbies get tempted by this whole ooh Facebook is telling me if I boost this post, I can reach twenty thousand people. [Flori agrees] And, it's very tempting to then put money on a post or turn it into an ad and then have nothing to show for it. You know this morning I was teaching a class and I said to them it's like there is you only need three things in your business.
THE 3 THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE YOU START FACEBOOK ADS
You need a way to get in front of new people. One is awareness and engagement. And, as long as... if you're running an ad for awareness and engagement, how are you going to measure the result of that engagement? Of that awareness? You know what were you or you capturing them in a custom audience or do you want to reach a certain number of people? And, what are you going to do once you have them? [Flori agrees] Do you have a plan and that comes to the second part of it is you need a way to subscribe them to your email list. So, if you're going to boost a post for engagement or awareness, what is your plan to then get them onto your email list? Because that's step two. Once they've engaged with you, you need a way to describe them. And then, long term, you need a way to turn those subscribers into paying customers. So, if everyone starts with those three things, awareness and engagement, subscribing or converting and you just think about why you're running ads. Is it for which one of those three things are you running ads for? And how do you measure the success of that? Then you can start asking yourself better questions about how you're going to set up your campaigns? And how you're going to measure the results? So, that's kind of where I would start to just reframe what's success with Facebook ads look like.
Flori Pyke [00:15:29] No I love it. I think those are some really good tips. I mean, as we said before we came on the episode right like it's like a can of worms. [Salome agrees] I think even just having that structure in your mind you know that you do there's like whilst it's good to get conversions and build your e-mail lists like if you're not building those warm audiences then those leads and those customers are going to cost you quite a bit of money, aren't they? And, especially today where there's more and more competition for the news feed and particularly for like conversion objective.
Salome Schillack [00:15:59] Absolutely. Yeah. And, I will tell you that Facebook, so I tell everyone, every single client we have they come on board, the first thing we do is we start running engagement campaigns. Because what I've seen is and this is you know two years ago, we would have told people, don't try engagement campaigns.
Flori Pyke [00:16:17] Yeah. Can I just jump in? No, actually it's really interesting. So, I studied, I've done a few courses myself, because I ran our ads for four years you know in the time that I could find. So, it's like Band Aid here, Band Aid there, it was really interesting, right was yes exactly. So, probably three years ago, one of the first courses I took was with Keith Krantz I remember. And, at the time the focus in that course and the objective that you talk about these three steps right, awareness, engagement number one, number two subscribing to your list and number three converting. So, at the time, the focus was really like let's just go for converting to begin with, right? [Salome agrees] So that you know you're making some money. And then, you can kind of reverse engineer this. But now you're saying this has changed, right?
THE FACEBOOK ALGORITHM
Salome Schillack [00:17:08] Yes. You absolutely nailed it. Two years ago, we were saying unless you can show two dollars for every dollar you're putting to Facebook, don't even start. Now, we're saying the complete opposite. Now we're saying. So, you'll remember I don't know if you remember but last year 2018 in January. Zuckerberg made this huge announcement that shocked the entire marketing community saying the News Feed is all about engagement. And, we will be favouring content by friends and family over content by marketers because what we want to see is engagement. In the time since then, what Facebook has introduced and I have this on really good authority although Facebook denies this and they will keep denying it but they give your account, you get a ranking. [Flori says "Yes I've heard that. Yes."] See. I call it your Facebook mojo. You have good mojo or you have bad mojo. Things Facebook considers when they give you your mojo score is are you running multiple different objective campaigns? So, are you running video views and engagement objective and conversions? If you were only running conversions, that's an indication to them that you are not leading with value. [Flori says "You've got a bad mojo."] Well it's just that what they want to see is engagement because it's a social platform where people want to see things that entertain them, that excite them, that they want to comment on, that they want to share with friends. So, if you're only running conversion ads all the time, you might be making money but your conversion cost is going to go up and up and up and up and up. [Flori agrees] And, that's what I'm seeing with some course creators. [Flori says "First to put my hand up totally"] Yes. And, I'm seeing with course creators who launched a program 12 months ago and is now launching the same program and twelve months ago they spent half the amount of money to make the money. [Flori says "Hundred percent"] But they now have to spend to make that money because they're only running conversion campaigns and they're running it on off, on off, on off. Whereas our clients who were running engagement campaigns consistently in the background halve the cost of their conversions in the last twelve months which is unheard of but I know for a fact that if you're running engagement campaigns and you're getting that engagement going on your page you like it builds up a snowball effect that Facebook loves. It just loves it and it rewards you so handsomely that when you do then run your conversion campaigns, your conversion costs are so low. Your mojo is good. Your ads don't get disapproved. It's just it's a beautiful thing to see and it's Zuckerberg fulfilling on his promise that he wants engagement.
Flori Pyke [00:19:49] Yeah. That's a really good tip you know. And, it also goes to speak about how you do have to be plugged into the never ending changes of the algorithm because what worked yesterday like you said I mean we're the first to see that like I track all of our metrics when it comes to our different campaigns. Oh my God. Like yeah, the return on investment over time has minimised a lot for every campaign as time has progressed and we've learned that lesson really the hard way. You know I started kind of exactly doing that like you know going straight for it with conversions. They were on off, on off based on what I had learned and today that strategy is just not going to cut it. [Salome says "No, you're not. You're going to pay the price long term for that."] A hundred percent. So, to that end, lesson here, I mean should business owners then be running ads all the time, Salome?
Salome Schillack [00:20:39] Yes, absolutely. Be running ads all the time. And, here's what I say, if you've never run any ads and you're just going to start out and you want to take five dollars a day, run that to an engagement campaign. Months from now, you'll be better off than you were if you didn't do that. So, if that's the only thing you can do. Just do that. If you've got that one fixed, the next thing is start running list building ads. When building your lists, start getting your algorithm. We call it seasoning the pixel, so your pixel learns and it gets smarter and smarter and smarter. But it needs a lot of data to learn. And so, you first start with an engagement campaign that you just take your best organic post. Turn it into an engagement campaign and just sit in the background. Let it run. [Flori says "Let it do its thing."] Yeah. Let it do its thing. And then your conversion ads, just start building your list. Start getting people onto your list. Start seasoning your pixels so that your pixel knows where to go and find your best people over the long run.
Flori Pyke [00:21:36] OK. Love it. Now, in terms of I'd love to ask you if you are about to... So, you engage a client or a client engages you I should say sorry and they say right, Salome and company, we are launching a challenge. How do you approach because obviously, there's a lot of moving pieces to creating the ads, the audiences, the testing that needs to go into mapping out a Facebook ads series of campaigns for a challenge? Can you talk me through how you approach that?
GETTING READY FOR A CHALLENGE
Salome Schillack [00:22:12] Yes. That's a very big question.
Flori Pyke [00:22:16] I know, dive in and we can chat a bit. But like what's kind of like Step One? Like do you have like a spreadsheet? Or do you work like how do you tackle this?
Salome Schillack [00:22:28] There's so many moving pieces. So, the first thing is when a client comes to us and they say I have a challenge launch coming up and I need your help. The first thing I ask them is how are you getting in front of new people. So, we start by looking at their how much are they running engagement campaigns? Exactly this conversation we just had. How are we getting in front of new people? Usually 9 out of 10 times, they're only getting in front of new people with organic strategies. So, in other words they have a social media following. [Flori agrees] They go live on Facebook once or twice a week. They are on Instagram all the time or they have a YouTube channel or something like that. So, the first thing we start doing is running those engagement campaigns for them. The second thing I ask them is are you building your list leading up to the launch. We call that prelaunch. Like how are you. How are you building a runway so that when you are starting to run the ads for your five day challenge, you have a fresh new list of people who are very engaged with you, who have recently opted in for something that solves a small problem for them that leads into your five day challenge. So, list building ads are the second thing we start running and this is usually about two months out from the course from the launch we would spend running those list building ads and we would run them just up to before we start running the ads for the five-day challenge. Now, when we start running the ads for the five-day challenge...
Flori Pyke [00:23:54] Can I just jump in here? Sorry Salome, I have a question. So, two months out of the challenge you're running the list building ad, right? [Salome agrees] What happens when the lead, the prospect opts in for the list builder? They get it. What do you do with them then? Are you putting them on a nurture sequence of some way, shape or form?
WHEN AND WHO TO TARGET
Salome Schillack [00:24:12] Yeah absolutely. That's what I recommend to my clients. The client's usually a part of the work that we're not a part of because we're the bringers of the traffic and they're the nurturers of the traffic. [Flori agrees] But, I would highly recommend to any client like if you get somebody to opt in especially if you know you're going into a launch. Nurture them. Send them into a nurture sequence. What I'd say is start getting them thinking about whether, start teaching them that they have it in themselves to do this. Because that your number one objection is self-doubt, right? That's one of your first objections is I don't think I have the time. I don't think I have the ability to do this thing. You need to overcome that and you can overcome that long before you pitch the product to them. The second thing is start giving them some quick wins you know. Teach them what they need to know about your solution or about your methodology. Teach them enough of what they need to know to know that you are the right person who's gonna... [Flori says "Start indoctrinating them."] Yeah, correct. Yeah. So, you start showing them ways that you are the right person to solve this problem for them. So, you do all of that in your email nurture sequence. So, we're running list building ads. Now, we're getting up to the time to start running the five-day challenge ads. You have two main audiences that you'll be targeting, the one is your warm audience which consists of all of those people you've just added to your email lists, all of the people that's been on your list for a while, everyone who's been to your Facebook page, everyone who's been on your Instagram, everyone who's been on your website. Those are your warm audiences. So, we're going to want to run ads to the warm audience to get them into the challenge. These are gonna be conversion ads and you could tweak your message to your warm audience so that it's slightly different from the message you give your cold audience. Because your warm audience already knows who you are and they already trust you and they already like you. So, you could tweak that message a little bit but most cases we would run the same ads first to the warm audience and then to the cold audience. So, you want to get your warm audience and your cold audience to opt in for your challenge. With the cold audiences, again there's two things you want to think about, one is your lookalike audiences. [Flori agrees] So, your best lookalike audience will always be people who have purchased from you. People who purchased that exact product that you'll be selling, you'll do really, really well with your lookalike audiences. So, you want to create lookalike audiences of your email lists or of people who have engaged with specific videos or specific pieces of content on your website. And then, you want to think about cold targeting which is interest targeting. And when you're doing interest targeting, I had this conversation with someone the other day. She said "Well, I'm a life coach and so this targeting people who are interested in personal development." And she said "the reason I choose personal development is because it gives me a bigger audience and the name of the game with cold audiences now is bigger audience." And I say to her. OK. But what happens? Let's think about it. Somebody who's interested in Tony Robbins will also be interested in personal development. But somebody who's interested in Brene Brown will also be interested in personal development. But which one is your client and she said it's the Brene Brown person. And, I said "OK. So, let's take personal development out of it because it's too vague. Let's think about Brene Brown and then think about who else can we target people who are into Brene Brown will also be interested in and we came up with Gretchen Rubin and Oprah Winfrey and Gabby Bernstein and Deepak Chopra and she ended up identifying about 10 different brands or personalities that when you put them together gives you the same size audience as what personal development gave you but now it's a lot more specific. Now, it's a lot more targeted. And then she started running the ads and she said they're doing fantastically well. So, when you're thinking about your targeting you need to think specific. Think inside the umbrella of your niche who are people most likely into. The person who's into cross fit is a different person than into Lululemon in the training industry. [Flori agrees] So, that's what we think about. And then, we run those conversion ads to get people into the challenge. The next thing you want to think about is are you retargeting people who go to the landing page of the challenge who do not opt in. Because if you think about it, often we click on something to read it and then the doorbell rings and you get up and you walk away and later on you just close all the windows. So, you forgot to opt in. So, you want to retarget people who are not opting in from that landing page and then from there we would start launch ads like oooh the doors are open ads, we're closing, testimonial ads, we like to add in a messenger ad where in the last 24 hours we just seen you say hey do you still have any questions about the program and we just add that in. So, there's a few things that goes in there. Does that answer your question?
WHAT TYPES OF TARGETING WORK BEST
Flori Pyke [00:29:19] Totally does. I think that's a really good breakdown. I also think whilst we're on the subject actually of targeting I'd love for you; I know from my learnings is quite a difference between targeting like interest versus like demographics versus job titles versus behaviours. I'd love for you to kind of just chat in and around that if you wouldn't mind for our listeners like what to focus on?
Salome Schillack [00:29:39] OK. I guess it depends on who your target audience is. [Flori agrees] Again this is kind of changed a little bit in the last two years with the algorithm changing. We used to say "be as specific as you can." So, what we would do is narrow it down to maybe 10 years you know women between the ages of 30 and 40 who are interested in Amy Porterfield and maybe that would be one ad set. Now, the algorithm is so smart that the algorithm, if you give the algorithm a large audience it goes and finds the right people for you. So, you want to be if you're targeting cold audience, we aim for about 10 to 20 million in an audience.
Flori Pyke [00:30:20] Wow that's even more than I've been told in a recent course I just took. So, there you go.
Salome Schillack [00:30:24] Yeah. Well, there you go. So that's what we look for. You don't always get there depending on the client and depending on who they are. But again the important thing is to get into the psyche of that client and think about the brands they follow. Think about the personalities they follow. So, for a lot of our clients who are you know in the digital courses businesses, we're always targeting Marie Forleo and Amy Porterfield, Mari Smithand you know and then there's some other you know so we might put personalities into one campaign and then put software like Kajabi and Infusionsoft and Ontraport and those things into another one. But we still group them all together so that we get a bigger audience and then we would make the age range a little bit wider. And, also like if you know you just want to work with women just narrow it down to that gender or if you want to work with men or if you sell a specific gender specific thing, narrow it down to that. Job titles, in our industry we don't use job titles much. What we do sometimes use is relationship status so we would often use marriage, status of being married. Unfortunately, people who are married have more disposable income, so we tend to use that or we use education, if they are graduates, people who are graduates. Yeah. Sorry.
Flori Pyke [00:31:42] You know I find it so funny, right? Because like I just did a course recently with Molly Pittman and I reckon it just really depends. Like its Facebook ads, right? It's such a like what's working now and also such a subjective thing. Because the lessons really that came out of that course was really to focus on interest-based targeting and to not worry about like categorising similar interests. And, the reason why namely, I should explain, why to focus on interest-based targeting that she really emphasised was because there's a lot less competition for interest-based targeting versus other things. So, like demographics, behaviours and what not. So, it's just so interesting, right? I find Facebook ads is just such a subjective thing in so many cases because unless you are in a position where you get to test like you said you know all of these different clients' campaigns, it's really difficult to get a gauge on things that work, things that don't. Yeah. So, I find that really interesting. And, the other thing that I’m going to jump in about, was like the size of audience, right? Like in Australia. [Salome says "Yeah it's gonna be smaller."] Forget it. You're not going to get a 20 million audience in an ad set. [Salome says "No, you're not."] If you want to test various ad sets like no matter what you're doing, forget it. So, it's just yeah, I think like they're all little things for our listeners to be really conscious of. Like if you're hearing this and you're like what?! In Australia, it's gonna be smaller.
Salome Schillack [00:33:11] Oh for sure. For sure. You gotta remember, in Australia there's how many people, 22 million people? [Flori says "Yes something like that."] You know it's gonna be way way way smaller than when you include when you're targeting the US. [Flori agrees] I was actually with Molly on the weekend at the Digital Marketer Down Under Show and funny enough like those interests, I find it interesting that you say she says the interest targeting, there's less competition. I think there's just as much competition if not more. I think it's more specific. I just think somebody who likes a personality or a brand, that is more specific than a behaviour unless you're selling something like you're the locksmith in your local area then you might want to target people who are interested in 24-hour locksmith within five kilometre radius of your business. And, you know and hope that the moment they type that into Google, your ad is going to come up in use in them in their news feed. But, if you're in the information products industry selling digital courses and coaching consultancy services then interest targeting for sure.
Flori Pyke [00:34:15] Yeah right. OK. Love it. Awesome. OK so just before we start to wrap up, final question I'd love to get you to talk around would be what metrics? So, you talked a bit about you know measuring the success of your ads. So, can you take us through exactly what metrics you pay close attention to when it comes to analysing your ads?
Salome Schillack [00:34:37] Yeah that's a great question. There's kind of micro metrics and then there's and then there's macro metrics. And the macro metric, the most important thing is are you getting a return on your ad spend. We call that ROI ads.People will hear the term ROI ads and what that means is for every dollar you put into Facebook; how many dollars are you getting out? [Flori says "Yeah like return on investment."] Yes exactly. Exactly. So, for every dollar you put into a launch in Facebook, how many dollars did you get back? And, if you're not getting back more than what you're putting in something is wrong. So then, you go back and you look at your micro metric and the next one you'll look at is well what are you paying per lead? What's your cost per lead? How much are you paying for lead? And, if your cost per lead is higher than what you're selling your widget for then you have a problem because if it costs you more to acquire a lead than what you make on the back end when you sell something to them that's why you're not making a return on ad spend. So, you need to know with the number that we like to look at is earnings per lead. So, in other words, if you had a hundred leads and your hundred leads made you a hundred dollars. But that also cost you 100 hundred dollars then your earning per lead is zero. So, you need to know what your earnings per lead is because if you know what you're earning for every lead you get on Facebook then you know how much you can spend, right? So now you know how much you can spend to acquire a customer, then you can track your lead costs and when that lead cost comes in at five dollars a lead and you know you're going to be making money. If your leads cost five dollars, you're... But if your lead costs ten dollars and you know at ten dollars you're losing, then you know you need to shut it down. Now, when you see your earnings per lead is too high, the metrics you want to look at is your landing page conversion rate. That's the first place I usually go. What is the conversion rate on my landing page? Is my landing page working? If your landing page is converting anywhere above 30 percent, it's good. I heard people say they have landing pages; I've seen landing pages convert at 80 percent [Flori says "wow!"] Those are unicorns,around 30 to 40 percent is good. So, if you're landing page is converting 30 to 40 percent, you're good. Then the next thing you want to check is your click through rate or people clicking through from the ad to your landing page and you want that definitely to be above 1 percent. And then, if people are not clicking on your ad then you want to be looking at your reach. What's your cost per impression? And you want to try to get that around the ten dollar mark to make sure that you're paying about 10 dollars to reach a thousand people. And then, if you work it back, if you're paying ten dollars to reach a thousand people and one percent of them are clicking through and 30 percent of them are converting then how much are you paying to get a lead? So, those are the key metrics that we work our way back from if we see things aren't working.
Flori Pyke [00:37:37] So, what does it mean if your click through rate say is like .5? Does that mean that the audience is not responding positively to the ad like it's not resonating with them?
Salome Schillack [00:37:47] Yeah. That's literally speaking, what it means is your audience isn't resonating. Your audience is not connecting with your ad. They’re not taking the action now.That could be a targeting issue. You could be putting the right ad in front of the wrong people or it could be creative issue. Your copy is not converting. Your image is not making them stop their scroll. Your video is not you know catching them and engaging them. So yeah. So, if you see people are not clicking through to your landing page the first thing I look at is the copy because those are the easy things to fix. Is the copy connecting with them? Is it like good conversion copy that's going to get people curious about clicking to the landing page? Is the image eye catching? Does the image stand out in the News Feed? Is it going to make me stop my scroll? Is the headline benefit driven? Does the headline say something that I want? Does it connect with my pain points and my passion point? And then, I would look at the audience and go OK maybe the targeting wasn't right. But the first thing I would fix is the creative and then look at the targeting.
Flori Pyke [00:38:52] Yeah. I love it. And like another good little trick there is like even just to look at the relevance score, right, of the ad? [Salome says "Relevance score has actually disappeared now. We don't have relevance score anymore."] Oh my god was that like yesterday? [Salome says "Well, maybe I don't know. Maybe they're rolling it out slowly. I didn't have it anymore"] It must be because I still... [Salome says "you still have it?"] Yeah. I have it yesterday. [laughs]
Salome Schillack [00:39:13] That's funny. I haven't seen a relevance score in a long time but Facebook rolls out these changes to the back in like in waves. With some of my ads managers, their interface looks completely different to mine because they already have the new look rolled out and I don't. I'm still on the old one. So, everybody's very jealous because I'm still working on the old one but the relevance score is disappearing, but it is being replaced by other metrics that they will show you your engagement metric and it will show you are you below average, average or above average? So, it kind of gives you an indication of that.
Flori Pyke [00:39:48] Love it. OK. I said that was the last question but I just have one more, sorry. Obviously and I think this is a really good question for listeners to ask. You know we've just talked about like so many changes that have happened in the space of a day for instance like so for listeners like where is a good like resource, podcast, like website? What do you use to stay in touch with all of these changes? Because what worked yesterday doesn't necessarily work today. Do you have any recommendations or tips on what we can plug into here to stay abreast of everything?
Salome Schillack [00:40:24] Yeah. So, the two people that I learn the most from is Molly Pittman [Flori agrees] Yeah. So, she's got the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. Probably best resource. I love it. And then, the other person that I often go to to learn is John Loomer. John Loomer has a really good blog. And he is more, he's much better in the written format like you want to read what he says. But he also does lots of little mini masterclasses where he really dives deep into things. And then, my mentor Rick Mulready still teaches a lot of Facebook ads and he has a good podcast called The Art of Paid Traffic where you can also learn a lot about this stuff.
Flori Pyke [00:41:02] Love it. OK. Awesome. Thank you so much. You know this stuff whilst it's technical and can feel really overbearing and overwhelming for someone who hasn't done it like it is so important. I mean it’s kind of like the lifeblood of your business really, your marketing. [Salome agrees] So, to be able to kind of speak the language and start to do this stuff is fundamental to really growing and scaling your business. This has been awesome. Thank you so much.
Salome Schillack [00:41:28] You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Flori Pyke [00:41:30] It's been a pleasure. So, on that note you've dished out so much gold. So, where can our listeners find out more about you?
Salome Schillack [00:41:37] Yeah. Well they can come over to shineandsucceed dot com and I have a little freebie there for you guys called the Three Types of Facebook Ads Every Course Creator Needs and they can just go to shineandsucceed.com/elevatory to get that.
Flori Pyke [00:41:53] Oh I love it. Thank you so much. I'm totally going to go have a little look myself. So... I love it. Now, in custom Raising Her Game Podcast form. I'm going to put you on the spot. Parting thoughts. What would be yours? Yeah.
Salome Schillack [00:42:09] My parting thoughts is just to tell everyone that they can do it. When it feels hard, it feels right. So just to believe in yourself. Keep going. What you're feeling when you're challenged by this stuff, that is the rite of passage that is an indication that you're in the right place, you're doing the right things and just keep moving forward because you are gonna figure it out. You are going to get there.
Flori Pyke [00:42:34] I love it and it's so true. It’s so true. So, thank you so much. That is a wrap. And, as always, ladies, remember to elevate your business game.
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